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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 17, 2016 8:51:28 GMT
Elm Park is a builders (Costain) creation from the site developed and had no park or history of note. Wasn't Queensbury a developer's invention as well? Chigwell Lane being 'some way from Chigwell' pales into insignificance when compared with Liverpool Street. Yes indeed, although Liverpool in St terms refers to the 19th-Century PM, Lord Liverpool, and not the City with liver birds on its' crest. Gloucester Road, Leicester Square, Oxford Circus, Mornington Crescent and Tottenham Court are other examples. (Mornington, I discover, is in Co Meath, near Drogheda) stapler Although Debden isn't in Chigwell, it is located on (well, just off) Chigwell Lane so the name was no more inaccurate than Edgware Road. Edgware Road is completely accurate - it is on the thoroughfare with that name. It would be wrong if it was called plain Edgware, just as Debden would be wrong if it was called Chigwell. Waterloo is nowhere near the battleground "Where Napoleon did surrender". But I think that we can allow that one. It used to be possible to get direct trains to both Waterloos (although not the third one on Merseyside) from Brussels Midi
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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 17, 2016 9:28:18 GMT
Thanks to the building of Westway, Latimer Road is nowhere near it's namesake (although Fresner Road used to be Latimer Road) My maternal grandparents lived in Latimer Road, which until it was decimated was a very busy rat run. Looking on Google Map, draw a line from its present 'stump' down to Queensdale Road, that was its extent, it then became Norland Gdns, which gave access to Holland park Avenue just where the M41 roundabout is. The area has been so developed, if you want some idea of what the neighbourhood was like, the final chase in the Blue Lamp, or episode of the Sweeny or Minder will give you a flavour
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 17, 2016 9:49:21 GMT
stapler Although Debden isn't in Chigwell, it is located on (well, just off) Chigwell Lane so the name was no more inaccurate than Edgware Road. Edgware Road is completely accurate - it is on the thoroughfare with that name. It would be wrong if it was called plain Edgware, just as Debden would be wrong if it was called Chigwell. Indeed, that was my (poorly put) point.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Oct 17, 2016 11:18:33 GMT
ETA: It should be noted that there are other claimants to the 'oldest bridge' record, . The Causey Arch, in Co Durham is a railway bridge more than a hundred years older than the C&W. This just illustrates the difficulty with this type of 'record'. I'm pretty sure the 'oldest' to which they were referring was for a locomotive powered railway providing a service for the public. Even then, I'm not convinced that the definition wasn't 'manipulated' by some chancer of a local politician, hungry for publicity.
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Post by stapler on Oct 17, 2016 12:03:10 GMT
Chris m. you are correct that Chigwell Lane stn is/was just off what is now called Chigwell Lane (though hardly now a lane) though the station started off as "Chigwell Road", but that of course wasn't an official street name, just an indication that it led to Chigwell. This station gained a certain immortality as plain "Chigwell" in the Victorian ballad "The Chigwell (sic) stationmaster's wife"
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Post by theblackferret on Oct 17, 2016 12:19:09 GMT
Elm Park is a builders (Costain) creation from the site developed and had no park or history of note. Wasn't Queensbury a developer's invention as well? Yes, most certainly was, once they realised another station was needed next to Kingsbury. Didn't even put it out to public competition in the Evening News/Standard/Star, either.
Yes indeed, although Liverpool in St terms refers to the 19th-Century PM, Lord Liverpool, and not the City with liver birds on its' crest. Gloucester Road, Leicester Square, Oxford Circus, Mornington Crescent and Tottenham Court are other examples. (Mornington, I discover, is in Co Meath, near Drogheda) And the Earl of Mornington was Arthur Wellesey's younger brother, who at least took his title from the country of his birth, unlike big brother.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 17, 2016 12:41:33 GMT
I'm pretty sure the 'oldest' to which they were referring was for a locomotive powered railway providing a service for the public.. Such as the Stockton & Darlington? However, the oldest tunnel on a public railway was probably at Tyler Hill on the C&W. It was built for locomotive haulage. Unfortunately, the 1/56 gradient proved to much for the locomotives available in 1830, and it ran with cable haulage (along with two other sections - not sure if the section with he famous bridge was one of them) for the first fifteen years of its existence. Of course many of the earliest wagon ways were also underground, inside mines.
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Post by brigham on Oct 17, 2016 16:10:37 GMT
Skerne Bridge on the S&D is probably also the oldest railway bridge still in everyday service.
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Post by rincew1nd on Oct 17, 2016 18:07:40 GMT
Skerne Bridge on the S&D is probably also the oldest railway bridge still in everyday service. Is that older than Mr Stephenson's bridges on the Liverpool & Manchester (Chat Moss) line? Sankey viaduct springs to mind.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Oct 17, 2016 18:19:19 GMT
East Putney?
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Post by countryman on Oct 17, 2016 20:33:53 GMT
No! As far as I know, Acton has 7 stations, including the 4 compass points. North Acton, East Acton, South Acton, West Acton, Acton Main Line, Acton Central and Acton Town. Ealing also has North, East, South and West stations (although no Central). I haven't come across East Ealing!!!
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 17, 2016 21:30:32 GMT
Skerne Bridge on the S&D is probably also the oldest railway bridge still in everyday service. Is that older than Mr Stephenson's bridges on the Liverpool & Manchester (Chat Moss) line? Yes it is- the L&M was opened five years after the S&D
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 17, 2016 21:55:07 GMT
I don't think that's misplaced. It's certainly in SW15 and east of the High Street
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Post by Chris M on Oct 17, 2016 22:57:57 GMT
Ealing also has North, East, South and West stations (although no Central). I haven't come across East Ealing!!! Ah, good point. Although there is a moderately humorous book by Robert Rankin called East of Ealing (which is set in Brentford).
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Post by melikepie on Oct 18, 2016 0:25:47 GMT
North Greenwich is nowhere near Greenwich just like Enfield West was nowhere near Enfield. On the ECML Welwyn North station, although north of WGC is east of Welwyn itself
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Post by crusty54 on Oct 18, 2016 4:42:55 GMT
North Greenwich is nowhere near Greenwich just like Enfield West was nowhere near Enfield. On the ECML Welwyn North station, although north of WGC is east of Welwyn itself There is an area called East Greenwich which runs until the Blackwall Tunnel approach road which leads to the area now known as North Greenwich. West Greenwich library is located near Greenwich station.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 18, 2016 6:50:15 GMT
The original North Greenwich station was on the other side of the river, close to the present site of Island Gardens. However, unlike North Woolwich, it was never part of the borough from which it took its name. The Greenwich peninsula was known as East Greenwich
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Post by trumperscrossing on Oct 18, 2016 9:13:51 GMT
The original North Greenwich station was on the other side of the river, close to the present site of Island Gardens. However, unlike North Woolwich, it was never part of the borough from which it took its name. The Greenwich peninsula was known as East Greenwich North Woolwich spent centuries in Kentdespite being North of the river, because it helped line thepockets of of a Norman notable. Money spoke as eloquently a thousand years ago as it does now. If there's a financial interest in stretching boundaries those boundaries will be stretched A favourite recent example, though not railway related, was South Chelsea Schol of English which was located in Brixton.
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Post by stapler on Oct 18, 2016 10:22:21 GMT
There were all sorts of detached bits ("exclaves" ) of parishes and counties all over the place resulting from feudal landholdings - eg Norhamshire, part of County Durham, cut out of what we now think of as Northumberland in the Tweed valley up by the Scottish border. One in London was the Walthamstow Slip, which ran westwards as a long narrow strip almost from Snaresbrook Station, being a bit of Walthamstow in what we now consider to be Leyton
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Post by Chris M on Oct 18, 2016 10:50:29 GMT
I you want exclaves in British counties you can't beat Cromartyshire, shown in red below For complexity I don't think it's possible to beat Baarle-Hertog/Baarle-Nassau. The Yellow areas are Belgium, the cream the Netherlands
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Post by crusty54 on Oct 18, 2016 13:40:19 GMT
The original North Greenwich station was on the other side of the river, close to the present site of Island Gardens. However, unlike North Woolwich, it was never part of the borough from which it took its name. The Greenwich peninsula was known as East Greenwich having lived in the borough for much of my life - not true. The now closed East Greenwich library was on Woolwich Road by the flyover. My late father was a curate at a church near the tunnel entrance. The area was often referred to as the Greenwich Peninsula. I didn't like the name adopted for the Jubilee line station but it is north of the greater Greenwich area
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2016 15:17:16 GMT
Man, I'm surprised no-one's come up with the fact that Chiswick Park is in fact nearer Turnham Green, which, I believe, is in turn closer to the original Chiswick Park (which I believe is now named Bedford Park).
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Post by countryman on Oct 18, 2016 15:40:25 GMT
Man, I'm surprised no-one's come up with the fact that Chiswick Park is in fact nearer Turnham Green, which, I believe, is in turn closer to the original Chiswick Park (which I believe is now named Bedford Park). Turnham Green Station is near Chiswick Common, Chiswick Park Station is near Turnham Green, and the destination of the 94 bus (nee 88) is at Acton Green which is near Chiswick Park Station.
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Post by class411 on Oct 18, 2016 17:58:42 GMT
They have the same nonsense with hospitals.
The Hammersmith Hospital is in Shepherd's Bush (well, W12, anyway - you generally have to go through Shepherd's Bush from Hammersmith to get there).
If you find yourself in a big hospital in Hammersmith, it will be the Charing Cross.
I dare say there's a perfectly good technical reason for this but the locals think it's batty.
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Post by keppoch69 on Oct 18, 2016 18:04:27 GMT
They have the same nonsense with hospitals. The Hammersmith Hospital is in Shepherd's Bush (well, W12, anyway - you generally have to go through Shepherd's Bush from Hammersmith to get there). If you find yourself in a big hospital in Hammersmith, it will be the Charing Cross. I dare say there's a perfectly good technical reason for this but the locals think it's batty. Not heard the word batty for a while. Gave me a smile. Thank you.
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Post by grahamhewett on Oct 18, 2016 19:12:48 GMT
I you want exclaves in British counties you can't beat Cromartyshire, shown in red below For complexity I don't think it's possible to beat Baarle-Hertog/Baarle-Nassau. The Yellow areas are Belgium, the cream the Netherlands I believe even that map simplifies things -my Belgian friends tell me that in fact the whole town is divided into many more than a hundred parts - some individual houses - and all the territorial public services such as telephones and water are duplicated. [I recommend googling enclave and exclave to see some really bizarre cases - in some Indian states especially, with some enclaves completely being surrounded by another state itself being an enclave, a bit like Russian dolls). Swiss canton Fribourg highly commended... Back on stations, the Dulwichs and Actons seem to be especially unhelpful although I would give a special award to the Sudburys where all the qualifiers seem intended to mislead. Precisely where is Sudbury?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 18, 2016 19:17:16 GMT
South Chelsea Schol of English which was located in Brixton Several examples of institutions which have moved away from their nominal locations. Royal Holloway College (in Egham). Millwall football club (wrong side of the river) Charing Cross Hospital (in Hammersmith) Hammersmith Hospital (in Acton) However Bedford College and my father's Alma mater, the Northampton Polytechnic (later the City University) were named after the squares in which they were located - although Bedford College is now co-located with Holloway)
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Post by John Tuthill on Oct 18, 2016 19:49:42 GMT
I you want exclaves in British counties you can't beat Cromartyshire, shown in red below For complexity I don't think it's possible to beat Baarle-Hertog/Baarle-Nassau. The Yellow areas are Belgium, the cream the Netherlands I believe even that map simplifies things -my Belgian friends tell me that in fact the whole town is divided into many more than a hundred parts - some individual houses - and all the territorial public services such as telephones and water are duplicated. [I recommend googling enclave and exclave to see some really bizarre cases - in some Indian states especially, with some enclaves completely being surrounded by another state itself being an enclave, a bit like Russian dolls). Swiss canton Fribourg highly commended... Back on stations, the Dulwichs and Actons seem to be especially unhelpful although I would give a special award to the Sudburys where all the qualifiers seem intended to mislead. Precisely where is Sudbury? West of Ipswich
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Post by theblackferret on Oct 18, 2016 20:27:57 GMT
I you want exclaves in British counties you can't beat Cromartyshire, shown in red below For complexity I don't think it's possible to beat Baarle-Hertog/Baarle-Nassau. The Yellow areas are Belgium, the cream the Netherlands I believe even that map simplifies things -my Belgian friends tell me that in fact the whole town is divided into many more than a hundred parts - some individual houses - and all the territorial public services such as telephones and water are duplicated. [I recommend googling enclave and exclave to see some really bizarre cases - in some Indian states especially, with some enclaves completely being surrounded by another state itself being an enclave, a bit like Russian dolls). Swiss canton Fribourg highly commended... Back on stations, the Dulwichs and Actons seem to be especially unhelpful although I would give a special award to the Sudburys where all the qualifiers seem intended to mislead. Precisely where is Sudbury? Not to mention John Brahm's film noir of 1946, the Locket, in which psychological tour de force Laraine Day manages to reduce a number of men to quivering wrecks, including a talented painter, played by a young Bob Mitchum, who defenestrates himself rather than live without her. The point here being the film contains flashbacks within flashbacks within flashbacks, which makes a second tub of ice-cream at the local Ritz/ABC essential. On railway matters, lest we forget, from 2 April 1906, Aylesbury joint station was run by a joint committee. This consisted of members of The Great Western & Great Central Joint Committee, together with members of the Metropolitan & Great Central Joint Committee. How many members of the resultant Aylesbury Joint Station Committee were red-bearded dwarves or if it was chaired by Mr Justice Cocklecarrot is not recorded.
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Post by Chris M on Oct 19, 2016 0:42:26 GMT
South Chelsea Schol of English which was located in Brixton Several examples of institutions which have moved away from their nominal locations. Royal Holloway College (in Egham). Millwall football club (wrong side of the river) Charing Cross Hospital (in Hammersmith) Hammersmith Hospital (in Acton) However Bedford College and my father's Alma mater, the Northampton Polytechnic (later the City University) were named after the squares in which they were located - although Bedford College is now co-located with Holloway) You can add Arsenal and West Ham to that list too, the former named for the Royal Arsenal in Woolwich but now in north London and the latter now playing north of Stratford. A less obvious one is the University of St Mark and St John, now in Plymouth, but taking it's name from colleges in Chelsea and Battersea named, I believe, for local churches.
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