Interchange & Travelcard question

I'd suggest they take c2c to Limehouse as there is a same level interchange on their outward journey - you just pass through an interchange gateline. More involved on the way back though as the interchange is more awkward as they have to descend to street level from the DLR and then walk across to the C2C entrance. DLR obviously has a lift down from the platform. There are several flights of stairs from street to platform.

You can see the layout here. Placing your cursor over each area brings up a photo image and each image can be enlarged.

Changing at Canary Wharf is a tad awkward because there are different walking routes via shopping centres or not. Obviously there are lifts, escalators or steps to deal with at both stations and on the walk between them. Perhaps your friends could try out the interchange during their visit so they can suss out which one they'd like to do. You can also change "undercover" at Heron Quays as there is a shopping concourse under the office block and that links to the JLE station. It is signposted.

They could ask C2C to issue their Travelcard and their tickets on a "C2C Smart" smartcard. This is an ITSO card but that's compatible with all of TfL's readers on buses, tubes, Overground, DLR etc. I believe the C2C Smart is issued free but a photo is needed. www.c2c-online.co.uk/tickets-and-fares/c2c-smartcard/ The only thing I'd want to check is whether C2C can issue a Z1-3 TC on a C2C Smartcard - they may have a restriction which only allows them to issue outboundary Travelcards. There should be no issue with putting the single tickets on the Smartcard. I suggest they have a chat wth the staff at the Grays ticket office.

According to the TfL website no ticket office is shown for West Ham. I believe weeklies can be bought from the machines but TfL only issue on to Oyster Cards.

The other option is whether your friends have contactless bank cards (debit or credit). If they do they could use those for all their TfL journeys and it should cap at the relevant weekly rate if their total daily journeys come out at more than the 7 day cap for the zones they travel through. They can create an account with TfL with the relevant bank cards registered and check their journeys and charges. The 7 day cap runs from Monday to Sunday so they need to consider if all their travel with fit easily in that "window" or if their arrangements are such that they straddle that meaning their travel would fall into two weeks (so far as Capping is concerned) and may not end up being capped at a 7 day total, just a series of daily caps that may exceed the 7 day one. In this case buying the 7 day Travelcard may make more sense.

The final option (phew) is that they buy Oyster cards themselves - PAYG is valid from Grays so they just need to buy an Oyster card, still some cash on it and when they get into Greenwich they can add a 7 day travelcard at a DLR machine or at an Oyster Ticket Stop. Dave's News at 81 High Street, Grays is an "Oyster Ticket Stop" [1] so they can get their Oyster Cards from there if they wish and get some value put on. Not sure if he can sell the Z13 Travelcard but no harm in asking.


[1] found on the TfL Ticket Stop Locator webpage.

Hope all that helps.

1) I wouldn't recommend interchanging at Canary Wharf with cases (or generally actually, the stations are some distance apart and you are signed through the shopping centre). Better just to change at Limehouse (not all c2c trains stop at Limehouse, so you might need to change trains at Upminster or West Ham - check the timetable, but I think most off peak trains do now call). On the inbound trip there is a direct link between the westbound c2c platform and the eastbound DLR platform. On the way home it will be a lift to the street and then a 1 minute walk to the c2c station, which has lifts to the platforms.

2 and 3) You can get 7-day travelcards on standard (registered?) oyster cards without needing a photocard. You can purchase these from ticket machines. I don't know whether paper tickets are still available, or whether there is a machine on the link bridge at Limehouse (if there isn't, and you don't have tickets/oysters in advance you will need to go via the street - about 1 minute's walk). No idea about ticket office at West Ham, but if you take my recommended route this isn't relevant. You can get an Oyster online here, including with a travelcard. There is a Vistor oyster card but I don't know if there is any practical difference between them.

I use an Oyster Visitor Card which I used from last year. I find it easy and convenient to use and top up. If your friends don't want too keep a balance for future use refunds are available, the following is taken from TFL website.


Visitor Centres
Unused credit on your Visitor Oyster card
The pay as you go credit on your Visitor Oyster card never expires so you can keep it until your next visit to London, or lend it to family and friends.

For a refund of any unused credit, you can:

Get a refund of up to £10 credit at a Tube station ticket machine.
Take your card to a Visitor Centre.
Post your card to us with a note, asking for a refund.
If you take your card to a Visitor Centre, your refund will be paid in cash or by debit/credit card, depending on how you paid originally. Your Visitor Oyster card will be returned to you for future use

If you post your card to us with a note asking for a refund, we'll refund any credit by cheque in GBP, although we cannot return your card.

Send your card to:

TfL Customer Services
14 Pier Walk
4th Floor
London SE10 0ES

Hope this helps.

Hmm, they say that the card will never expire, but I thought the desire was to replace the present form of Oyster with one more like the contactless system - where all transactions and data are performed in a back office somewhere - as its cheaper to administer one system.

Simon

Not quite; the £5 deposit on a standard Oyster card will always be refunded, unless your card is in a negative balance. In this instance you will get your deposit back less the amount you owe the company.

Visitor Oyster cards have a non-refundable deposit of £3. At the moment if you get a refund on your card you can use the card again and it remains active, however in the near future this will be changing, and cards will be cancelled if refunded.

Personally I think this is a good step forwards, but I know not everyone agrees. See my Twitter here for the amount of cards I refunded in two hours... what a waste! But that's for a separate topic...

Unless you are desperate to pay the non-refundable £3, or have your cards delivered to you, there is no reason why anyone should buy the Visitor Oyster card instead of the standard variant.

I think all the pressing questions have already been answered, but if there's any uncertainty still let me know and I'll try and help.

There is a gateline between C2C and DLR which will cover the interchange. As the Travelcards you have bought include Zone 1 there is no need for your friends to worry about touching on pink validators at all. It is only if a Travelcard does NOT have Zone 1 or someone is just using PAYG that route validators have to be used.

On the assumption the Travelcard starts on the day that your friends travel from Grays then the system will only charge from Grays to the Z3 boundary with the bit to Cutty Sark covered by the Travelcard. If your friends are travelling off peak then the extension fare should be £3.90. Obviously they need to travel off peak on the return to work within your £8 add on value. You are correct that if the final fare charged makes the balance go negative then they will be let out of the system but the card won't work again until some more money is added to restore the cash balance to zero or a positive value.

One thing that is important is that the DLR typically only has validators. They work for entry and exit so your friends will need to remember on their first and last journeys to touch in and out including on the DLR.

If they were to travel via Limehouse on the return trip then they must touch in at Cutty Sark, out at Limehouse DLR, in at the C2C ticket gates at Limehouse and out at Grays (I assume it has ticket gates). They must get this logic right or else there may be a standard fare charged at some point.

I know Travelcards typically don't need to be touched in and out religiously if people are travelling solely within the zones but it might be good practice for your friends to do so on DLR. They'll face ticket gates when using the tube and obviously have to tap in when using the buses.

If your friends are on the Internet then TfL have some good Youtube videos about using Oyster.

Sorry for being presumptuous. I was more surprised that someone living in Grays would stay in a hotel in a few miles away rather than travel in to London from home.




If I've understood how travelcards and PAYG interact, it should only charge them the PAYG to the (inner) boundary of Zone 4, as the Travelcard is valid immediately you enter Zone 3. As a travelcard is a season, the "split ticket" rule about trains having to stop at the split pont doesn't apply, so the fact that the C2C trains don't stop at the boundary station (East Ham) shouldn't make a difference - indeed this particular boundary is unusual (but by no means unique) in actually having a station straddling the boundary.

Grays to Zone 4 is £3 off peak.

Only an option with the Visitor Oyster cards, or for a regular Oyster card that still has an active Travelcard. I believe it is likely an oversight, because, as I say, it is due to be phased out with an imminent software update.

They were charged £1.70!

No - Oyster rates alter when you use a combination of NR + LU services. There are 3 sets of PAYG rates in the fares handbook

•Journey using TfL services only
•TfL & NR
•NR only

Not strictly correct since May 2015. There are 4.

- Journey using TfL services only (but not West Anglia or Shenfield line)
- Journey using TfL services including West Anglia and / or Shenfield line
- TfL and NR
- NR

Sorry to quibble but it is now very complex. There are also fares using West Anglia / Shenfield Line to Liverpool St NR which are cheaper than continuing into Zone 1 via Liv St (effectively the old London Terminals fare). Therefore from Walthamstow Central to Liv St there are two PAYG fares - one wholly on Overground to Liv St NR and one via the Tube to Liv St LU which is more expensive. I believe the same applies from Seven Sisters and no doubt Tottenham Hale even though that is operated by Abellio GA it uses the TfL (West Anglia / Shenfield) tariff.

I thought that some of them were insisted on by the Treasury