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Post by snoggle on May 28, 2015 13:38:04 GMT
TfL have just finished a twitter session about the Overground. Quite a lot was said. I asked a fair number of questions which Mr Stubbs replied to. - newly refreshed West Anglia Overground train enters service on Monday. I assume this will be after Boris has grinned widely for the cameras at the "reveal" station. - announcement due on new trains for Overground next month - Hackney Central / Downs link should open in June so slightly ahead of the July target date. - announcement due in a few months about improved off peak services on West Anglia - looks like the Walthamstow Central gating scheme is being reassessed to remove interchange gating and a move to a perimeter scheme in conjunction with LU. This suggests there will be gates in the subway to the bus station and some of the recent work will have to be undone. Please note that I am speculating about what will be done. TfL just referred to an "integrated scheme" which I later questioned. - next concession specification is looking at increased train frequencies, a partial weekend 24 hour service and more frequent late night trains. No more detail than that. - Some confusion about quite when electrification will happpen when they replied to me. Other tweets referred to 2018 completion date. - TfL will look again at a signing scheme for the Walthamstow Central - Queens Road link. Quite why it needs looking at again I don't know. It's a no brainer to me. - Contingency plans being developed by LOROL for the Vic Line closure in August but no further details given. - No real update on the Blackhorse Road "Access for All" scheme to improve access to the Overground platforms. Odd that this scheme is struggling to achieve any great momentum. - No scope to improve capacity on the GOBLIN prior to electrification. - No plans to make Chingford services stop at London Fields or Cambridge Heath. - Still considering whether to change the "naming convention" for LOROL routes. (e.g. North London Line vs Stratford to Richmond / Clapham Junction or some other name).
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Post by jukes on May 28, 2015 14:24:25 GMT
- As far as I know the reveal event is at Enfield Town on Monday at around 11:00/11:15 - Yes new train announcement in June (hopefully but subject to TfL Board and DfT sign off) - Hackney Interchange is hoped to open by mid-late June. - Walthamstow gating is being VERY URGENTLY reviewed
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Post by knap on May 28, 2015 14:55:54 GMT
Would be good to know when work is going to restart at West Hampstead. I assume it is tied into the development next door. A lot of work was done at the start of the year in preparation and blue hoardings are along both platforms. The congestion at the station with the narrow platforms and few ticket gates is very unpleasant at times! Outside the station is not much fun either!
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Post by snoggle on May 28, 2015 14:57:26 GMT
- As far as I know the reveal event is at Enfield Town on Monday at around 11:00/11:15 - Yes new train announcement in June (hopefully but subject to TfL Board and DfT sign off) - Hackney Interchange is hoped to open by mid-late June. - Walthamstow gating is being VERY URGENTLY reviewed Do I go and grin insanely behind Boris at Enfield on Monday? New train announcement would tie in with the Board meeting due in early July and Finance and Policy Cttee in mid June (this mtg previews papers to the Board). Walthamstow Central - eeh well if they'd asked us old lags (i.e. me) who did a lot of LU gating, including the top end of the Victoria Line, we could have told them the layout that's been done was a load of old nonsense!
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Post by stapler on May 28, 2015 15:15:37 GMT
- looks like the Walthamstow Central gating scheme is being reassessed to remove interchange gating and a move to a perimeter scheme in conjunction with LU. This suggests there will be gates in the subway to the bus station and some of the recent work will have to be undone. Please note that I am speculating about what will be done. TfL just referred to an "integrated scheme" which I later questioned. What a waste of public money and human effort!
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Post by dmncf on May 28, 2015 19:47:43 GMT
- No real update on the Blackhorse Road "Access for All" scheme to improve access to the Overground platforms. Odd that this scheme is struggling to achieve any great momentum. Is this lack of progress perhaps related to obtaining third party funding from nearby developments? Blackhorse Road isn't a station I know well, but last time I visited I noted new buildings springing up nearby.
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Post by snoggle on May 28, 2015 21:58:04 GMT
- No real update on the Blackhorse Road "Access for All" scheme to improve access to the Overground platforms. Odd that this scheme is struggling to achieve any great momentum. Is this lack of progress perhaps related to obtaining third party funding from nearby developments? Blackhorse Road isn't a station I know well, but last time I visited I noted new buildings springing up nearby. I don't think it is. The new building is a school so I can't see that being a source of developer funding even though we've effectively privatised new school provision. Having asked about this scheme several times my sense of things is that there are several issues. Firstly it's probably best to do the works when the line is being electrified. As funding tends to be in annual tranches it may no longer be funded in the year when the work would be done. It's not clear to me whether funding can be rolled forward or not. It's also not clear that the DfT will be able to carry on funding Access for All works given the impending further dose of Osborne austerity. Putting in a lift (for 1 platform) will have staffing implications for LU who are supposed to look after the Overground platforms but I've never seen a LU member of staff step on to the footbridge never mind reach the platforms! (The plan is to provide a ramp for the other platform). Having a lift may create a staffing cost that LU has not budgeted for given it's trying to cut staffing numbers / costs. The other thing I've picked up in discussion over Twitter is that TfL are looking to add capacity to the bridge and stairs (probably by completely replacing them). Whether capacity expansion can be funded off the back of Access for All is probably a debateable issue and DfT might be questioning funding. This is speculation on my part so treat it all with some care but it's impossible to dig out the detail and I have checked regularly on the Network Rail and DfT websites. The comments about station capacity and timing the work with electrification are from replies by TfL on previous Overground Twitter sessions.
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Post by ashlar on May 29, 2015 6:16:58 GMT
Thanks all. This is a very useful thread.
If Enfield Town has been rebranded for the "reveal"!already how come nobody has posted any photos? Passengers sign an NDA?!
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Post by ashlar on May 29, 2015 6:20:36 GMT
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Post by ashlar on May 29, 2015 6:22:22 GMT
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Post by snoggle on May 29, 2015 8:22:15 GMT
Thanks all. This is a very useful thread. If Enfield Town has been rebranded for the "reveal"!already how come nobody has posted any photos? Passengers sign an NDA?! As you've seen from the photos much of the new stuff is covered over and will be "revealed" on Monday.
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Post by flippyff on May 29, 2015 22:14:28 GMT
Why don't the temporary signs have 'temporary sign' written on them?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 30, 2015 20:00:59 GMT
Maybe they got negative feedback about the first lot of temporary sign notices?
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Post by pridley on May 30, 2015 21:52:25 GMT
TfL have just finished a twitter session about the Overground. Quite a lot was said. I asked a fair number of questions which Mr Stubbs replied to. - announcement due in a few months about improved off peak services on West Anglia - next concession specification is looking at increased train frequencies, a partial weekend 24 hour service and more frequent late night trains. No more detail than that. Very exciting. My expections remain that they will initially seek their minimum turn up and go frequencies of four trains per hour for every station all day and night, every day. This would be consistent with Chingford having four trains per hour right up to the last train. That will mean eight off peak trains per hour between Liverpool Street and Edmonton Green to achieve four trains per hour for Enfield Town and Southbury Loop, rising to 10 trains per hour for Edmonton Green and Seven Sisters, including the Hertford East services. Will they squeeze in those extra two trains per hour at peak between Cheshunt and Edmonton Green to provide the Southbury Loop four trains per hour? I think that will be an early objective. However, they may wait until STAR services in 2018 remove two Stratford services per hour from the West Anglia Mainline between Angel Road and Stratford before doing this, meaning that until then we may have a comfortable six off-peak trains per hour via Edmonton Green. This may allow them to squeeze all four Hertford East trains to run via Tottenham Hale, and thus you get your four trains per hour stopping all stations on the Southbury Loop. I think Network Rail and Abellio are resigned to this given that the Sunday Hertford East train that had rights over the Seven Sisters route has been shifted to the mainline. This change should also finally provide stations between Cheshunt and Ponders End a consistent four trains per hour to Tottenham Hale and Liverpool Street on peak. I bet anything that the more frequent late night services are seeking parity between Enfield and Chingford services. This would provide more frequent services to Bethnal Green and Hackney Downs after Midnight and just fills in spaces in a West Anglia timetable that combines Chingford and Seven Sisters routes. Hopefully I am not misreading the semantics, but it appears that they are announcing this without announcing it. They have to do this to ensure that all Victoria Line trains are met with an Overground at Seven Sisters. A bare minimum objective, and Liverpool Street is already open until 01:03 already, every day, for the last Chingford. This will also probably save TFL money also if there is a charge for keeping Liverpool Street open later for the last Chingford, because that cost could then be shared with Seven Sisters services. Presently, the last train to Enfield Town, the 00:00 from Liverpool Street arrives Seven Sisters at 00:17 And the existing last train to Cheshunt from Seven Sisters is the 23:45 from Liverpool Street arriving Seven Sisters at 00:02 Allowing for a 10min interchange, the existing arrangement causes the last Seven Sisters Overground to Enfield Town to miss the last 11 Victoria Line tubes that engorge onto the bus network only. For Cheshunt, you miss an eye watering 14 Victoria Line tubes, with a very long journey ahead on the 279 bus. It could arguably be worse for Enfield Town customers who have no direct services. They would need to take a bus to Edmonton Green and then await a 192 bus that runs every 15mins until 01:22, which they could of course catch from Tottenham Hale by staying on the Victoria Line an extra stop if they have foresight! Last train to Enfield will probably leave at 01:00 every day with the last train to Cheshunt leaving at 00:45. This would mean that the last train from Brixton, arriving Seven Sisters at 00:55 and the last from Walthamstow, arriving 01:00 are both comfortably served. However there is an issue with Cheshunt not quite meeting the last few trains. Will they therefore stretch the last Cheshunt train to leave Liverpool Street at 01:15? 24hrs on West Anglia eventually? I think so because they trialled it already this New Year and TFL keeping Liverpool Street open helps spread the cost of that for Stansted Express, making its desired 24hr service more likely. But it will be useless if they have two trains an hour as they did this NYE. They do need a minimum of four trains per hour all night to make it worthwhile I believe.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 31, 2015 9:35:40 GMT
Why don't the temporary signs have 'temporary sign' written on them? I suspect because they are covers rather than temporary signs. These covers do almost match the brand guidelines in a way that the temporary signs clearly didn't.
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Post by snoggle on May 31, 2015 10:42:18 GMT
Why don't the temporary signs have 'temporary sign' written on them? I suspect because they are covers rather than temporary signs. These covers do almost match the brand guidelines in a way that the temporary signs clearly didn't. Correct - they were putting them up at Walthamstow Central around 1000 this morning. London bound platform was almost done when I was there with the Chingford bound still to do. Looked like there were big gaps in the train service - Realtime Trains shows 45-60 min gaps on the Chingford line this morning. The DMIs certainly showed at least 30 min gap when I was there. Not good.
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Post by flippyff on May 31, 2015 10:49:53 GMT
There's major delays on the London Overground due to a power supply issue at Wembley Central. Oh wait, that's a different London Overground....! ;-)
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Post by pridley on May 31, 2015 12:47:31 GMT
Looked like there were big gaps in the train service - Realtime Trains shows 45-60 min gaps on the Chingford line this morning. The DMIs certainly showed at least 30 min gap when I was there. Not good. I think there was a cancelled train this morning from Enfield Town, with a similar gap. Maybe they have been taking trains out of service to do the deep clean in preparation for commuters on Monday? But indeed, not a good way to start! Trains seem to be running on time via Edmonton Green. BUT, just checked Chingford's live depature board, and they appear to have serious issues. The timetable should have a train every 15mins. Confirms 1hr and also 30min gaps that are not in the timetable. Oddly, no status updates appear anywhere, so maybe TFL's systems are not yet integrated enough to send out delay reports? Due Destination Status Platform Details 13:40 London Liverpool Street On time 2 Details for the 13:40 13:55 London Liverpool Street On time 2 Details for the 13:55 14:55 London Liverpool Street On time Details for the 14:55 15:10 London Liverpool Street On time Details for the 15:10 15:40 London Liverpool Street On time Details ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ldbboard/dep/CHI
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Post by sawb on May 31, 2015 14:09:37 GMT
TfL have just finished a twitter session about the Overground. Quite a lot was said. I asked a fair number of questions which Mr Stubbs replied to. - newly refreshed West Anglia Overground train enters service on Monday. I assume this will be after Boris has grinned widely for the cameras at the "reveal" station. - announcement due on new trains for Overground next month - Hackney Central / Downs link should open in June so slightly ahead of the July target date. - announcement due in a few months about improved off peak services on West Anglia - looks like the Walthamstow Central gating scheme is being reassessed to remove interchange gating and a move to a perimeter scheme in conjunction with LU. This suggests there will be gates in the subway to the bus station and some of the recent work will have to be undone. Please note that I am speculating about what will be done. TfL just referred to an "integrated scheme" which I later questioned. - next concession specification is looking at increased train frequencies, a partial weekend 24 hour service and more frequent late night trains. No more detail than that. - Some confusion about quite when electrification will happpen when they replied to me. Other tweets referred to 2018 completion date. - TfL will look again at a signing scheme for the Walthamstow Central - Queens Road link. Quite why it needs looking at again I don't know. It's a no brainer to me. - Contingency plans being developed by LOROL for the Vic Line closure in August but no further details given. - No real update on the Blackhorse Road "Access for All" scheme to improve access to the Overground platforms. Odd that this scheme is struggling to achieve any great momentum. - No scope to improve capacity on the GOBLIN prior to electrification. - No plans to make Chingford services stop at London Fields or Cambridge Heath. - Still considering whether to change the "naming convention" for LOROL routes. (e.g. North London Line vs Stratford to Richmond / Clapham Junction or some other name). Chances of Chingford services stopping at Cambridge Heath and/or London Fields any time soon is 0, as there's too much conflicting movements to achieve this. Where would you put the necessary flyovers/flyunders? For those of us not aware, what is the problem with gating at Walthamstow Central?
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Post by pridley on May 31, 2015 16:46:55 GMT
Chances of Chingford services stopping at Cambridge Heath and/or London Fields any time soon is 0, as there's too much conflicting movements to achieve this. Where would you put the necessary flyovers/flyunders? For those of us not aware, what is the problem with gating at Walthamstow Central? Looking at the tracks south of Hackney Downs, the points there only allow transfer of Seven Sisters trains onto the Mainline tracks, and not vice versa. The only points that allow Chingford trains to move onto the slow tracks is the one also used by Cambridge and Stansted services just prior to Bethnal Green NR, where all West Anglia trains merge, less than gracefully, onto the bottleneck of bottlenecks, a single pair of track. Thus, an entire new set of points and thorough re-signaling will be required to have Chingford trains leave the mainline just south of Hackney Downs to stop at London Fields and Cambridge Heath and I have no idea how you could possibly do a diver-under under any normal budgetary conditions given the dense development either side and the nature of the viaduct. Maybe it is possible, but I can see why there are zero plans right now.
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Post by ashlar on May 31, 2015 17:47:53 GMT
For those of us not aware, what is the problem with gating at Walthamstow Central? The station has a complicated entrance / exit situation and there used to be direct access from the Overground / ex-GA platforms to the Victoria line entrance tunnel. TfL wants the Overground platforms behind a gateline. Due to the layout this would only be possible if either a) the tube gateline is moved, or b) the Overground and Underground stations are completely disconnected internally. Amazingly, they chose b, and have bricked up one of the entrances from the Overground to the Underground, and built a cage-like barrier to funnel passengers from the other tunnel exit out onto the street. A real dog's dinner. Now, however, there are conflicting reports (e.g. in that Twitter Q and A) that TfL management have changed their minds, and the horrid cage will be removed and interchanging commuters will once again no longer need to exit the station to interchange between Overground and Underground.
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Post by pridley on May 31, 2015 18:01:06 GMT
For those of us not aware, what is the problem with gating at Walthamstow Central? Now, however, there are conflicting reports (e.g. in that Twitter Q and A) that TfL management have changed their minds, and the horrid cage will be removed and interchanging commuters will once again no longer need to exit the station to interchange between Overground and Underground. Hopefully the same is done for Tottenham Hale. It is just awful to walk past the old tube entrance by the footbridge only to be funnelled out into the bus station forecourt and then back in to the tube. I am surprised that this does not form part of the overall works to the gyratory, etc. Clearly, this becomes more of an issue when Crossrail 2 raises its head.
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 31, 2015 19:23:57 GMT
Looking at the tracks south of Hackney Downs, the points there only allow transfer of Seven Sisters trains onto the Mainline tracks, and not vice versa. The only points that allow Chingford trains to move onto the slow tracks is the one also used by Cambridge and Stansted services just prior to Bethnal Green NR, where all West Anglia trains merge, less than gracefully, onto the bottleneck of bottlenecks, a single pair of track. Is carto Metro wrong then? It shows access from the slow line platforms (3/4) at Hackney Downs to both the Seven Sisters line and the Lea Valley/Chingford line. Seven Sisters line trains can only use platforms 3/4 as the crossover to/from the fast lines are south of the station.
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Post by alholmes on May 31, 2015 19:54:54 GMT
Looking at the tracks south of Hackney Downs, the points there only allow transfer of Seven Sisters trains onto the Mainline tracks, and not vice versa. The only points that allow Chingford trains to move onto the slow tracks is the one also used by Cambridge and Stansted services just prior to Bethnal Green NR, where all West Anglia trains merge, less than gracefully, onto the bottleneck of bottlenecks, a single pair of track. Thus, an entire new set of points and thorough re-signaling will be required to have Chingford trains leave the mainline just south of Hackney Downs to stop at London Fields and Cambridge Heath and I have no idea how you could possibly do a diver-under under any normal budgetary conditions given the dense development either side and the nature of the viaduct. Maybe it is possible, but I can see why there are zero plans right now.
But if you look immediately north of Hackney Downs, you'll see that it's possible for Chingford trains to access the platforms to/from Seven Sisters, and thus serve London Fields and Cambridge Heath.
Don't know if it's true of the new timetable, but in the previous timetable there was always an engineer's possession of the 'fast' lines between Bethnal Green and Hackney Downs for about 3 hours around midday a couple of days a week (either Tue/Wed or Wed/Thur, I cannot recall exactly). So all trains, including the Lea Valley line services and Stansted Express ran through the platforms at Cambridge Heath and London Fields.
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Post by pridley on May 31, 2015 19:58:42 GMT
Looking at the tracks south of Hackney Downs, the points there only allow transfer of Seven Sisters trains onto the Mainline tracks, and not vice versa. The only points that allow Chingford trains to move onto the slow tracks is the one also used by Cambridge and Stansted services just prior to Bethnal Green NR, where all West Anglia trains merge, less than gracefully, onto the bottleneck of bottlenecks, a single pair of track. Is carto Metro wrong then? It shows access from the slow line platforms (3/4) at Hackney Downs to both the Seven Sisters line and the Lea Valley/Chingford line. Seven Sisters line trains can only use platforms 3/4 as the crossover to/from the fast lines are south of the station. I double checked after you saying this. I was right south of the station, but I just checked north of the station. Chingford trains could indeed move onto the slow tracks prior to reaching Hackney Downs. So it can be done! The points south of the station may have been so that semi-fast trains could jump onto the fast tracks in-between Hackney Downs and Bethnal Green at some time. Did that ever happen?
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Post by ashlar on May 31, 2015 20:24:42 GMT
It used to be very common for Abellio GA to switch the platform for Chingford-line trains from the "fast" platforms at Hackney Downs to the slow ones. They often did this at very short notice forcing you to run between platforms! So yes, these points have been used...
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Post by snoggle on May 31, 2015 23:05:41 GMT
It used to be very common for Abellio GA to switch the platform for Chingford-line trains from the "fast" platforms at Hackney Downs to the slow ones. They often did this at very short notice forcing you to run between platforms! So yes, these points have been used... Well exactly. I've been on Chingford trains that have done the Hackney Downs shuffle but it's a long while since I've seen it done.
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Jul 3, 2015 8:46:28 GMT
There is another Twitter Q&A session at 1pm with answers on "new" Overground services by Director Mike Stubbs!
I expect a lot of angry questions, with many about Rolling Stock, short formations and cancellations
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Post by snoggle on Jul 3, 2015 8:58:23 GMT
There is another Twitter Q&A session at 1pm with answers on "new" Overground services by Director Mike Stubbs! I expect a lot of angry questions, with many about Rolling Stock, short formations and cancellations Sending in lots of questions right now!! Hopefully we can dispel a few "rumours" (ahem).
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Jul 3, 2015 10:24:34 GMT
There is another Twitter Q&A session at 1pm with answers on "new" Overground services by Director Mike Stubbs! I expect a lot of angry questions, with many about Rolling Stock, short formations and cancellations Sending in lots of questions right now!! Hopefully we can dispel a few "rumours" (ahem). How about asking Mike Stubbs to come to this forum to answer all the fantasy stuff haha
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