|
|
Post by Chris W on Oct 23, 2005 18:31:16 GMT
Further to yesterday's meet at the LU Museum's Acton Depot I discovered that there are plans to restore another heritage train alongside the 38TS. £45,000 has been donated to the Friend's of London Transport Museum by the Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) in order to investigate the feasibility of returning the 4-car Q stock unit to working order. The Friend's are also donating £9,000 (from a bequest by the late Bob Greenaway) for this work. At present the target for the completion of this work is Olympic year 2012, however a lot of additional fund-raising will be needed. In addition after speaking with a representative yesterday about the project, the museum is looking for input from those who have first-hand knowledge of these units. It is anticipated that the 4-car unit would be used on public tours, historical events and for educational purposes. For more information contact Louise Lee (020 7565 7266) or louise.lee@ltmuseum.co.uk - these contact details were advertised on a laminated A4 sheet attached to the unit @ Acton Depot where it currently residesIf anyone would like images of the 4-car unit (cars Q38 DM's 4416, 4417, 1923 Q23 DM 4184 & Q35 trailer 08063) taken yesterday, please PM me and I will happily oblige. Alternatively go to: photobucket.com/albums/d62/CJW04/Q%20Stock%20Project/?sc=4Regards Christopher |
|
|
|
Post by Christopher J on Oct 23, 2005 22:56:37 GMT
This sounds like a very promising project with a hopeful future, lets hope that the Q Stock can indeed be restored! At present the target for the completion of this work is Olympic year 2012 If it does get completed on time in 2012... Maybe it would be a good idea to run it on the Olympic Javelin Train between KX and Stratford? ;D ;D ;D |
|
|
|
Post by q8 on Oct 24, 2005 0:05:45 GMT
2012 eh! Well I hope I live long enough to see one of my beloved old ladies toddling along the track again. (I would die a happy man to have driven it)
|
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Oct 24, 2005 13:55:24 GMT
Brilliant - thanks Chris!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2005 18:15:12 GMT
Now, I for one would love to get my hands on the handles of a proper train, if not, just to travel on the cushions. I am far too young to have had the expereince, but alas, memories of 59's and 62's will do for now. I'll make a suitable donation to the project next payday!
|
|
|
|
Post by compsci on Apr 22, 2006 10:50:49 GMT
I have just recieved this month's friends newsletter and details of the appeal for funds (in separate envelopes for some reason). They still aren't certain whether restoration to full operating condition is feasible, but have begun an appeal for donations. As you would expect they would appreciate donations of as much as possible. People who give £100 or more will have their generousity recorded, probably on an advertising sign.
There is also going to be a meeting in May for anyone interested in the project. I imagine that this is supposed to be members only, so won't publish exact details, but you do have a PM button. Membership is £18 a year.
It is also noted that volunteer help will be needed at a later stage when restoration work begins.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2006 11:17:12 GMT
Well, at the very least the fact that they have no less than three Q motor cars means that at most they only need to restore the underfloor traction equipment on two of them to working order - the third one can be fully isolated and used as a trailer until funds are available to make that one work too. Still though, a Q4 is going to need to run very often in order to cover costs, mainly because there will be so many people trying to stuff themselves into it  |
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Jun 15, 2006 12:05:34 GMT
Does that include the foemer Q35 trailer owned by LURS in the past?
I asked my colleagues at LURS moons agao why they bought a trailer, and they replied that motor cars had been preserved so that 'they' thought a trailer was appropriate. As you know it ended up at the erstwhiel Ashford museum and then after that closed and re-possession notices were served it was eventually taken by Class 33 to Ruislip.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Jun 15, 2006 12:54:21 GMT
Does that include the former Q35 trailer owned by LURS in the past? I asked my colleagues at LURS moons ago why they bought a trailer, and they replied that motor cars had been preserved so that 'they' thought a trailer was appropriate. As you know it ended up at the erstwhiel Ashford museum and then after that closed and re-possession notices were served it was eventually taken by Class 33 to Ruislip. Oracle Look at the initial first post on this thread and I have detailed the cars that are the subject of the project - whether the Q35 trailer that you mention is one of the 4 (I can only assume it is as there's only 5 of the 'Q' stock cars remaining... I think the 5th car, a DM is to be relocated back to the museum in Covent Garden for next years opening) I'll leave for someone else to confirm Regards Christopher PS: the contact in the first thread is no longer the person to speak to as regards the project - I have the details of the new contact if anyone's interested. |
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Jun 15, 2006 13:02:40 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by mowat on Jun 16, 2006 11:15:27 GMT
I asked my colleagues at LURS moons agao why they bought a trailer, and they replied that motor cars had been preserved so that 'they' thought a trailer was appropriate. I think it's a shame no one saved a Q27(K) stock DM. The two C&SLR cars are now at the COVENTRY ELECTRIC RAILWAY CENTRE. www.emus.co.uk/who.htm |
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Jun 21, 2006 12:23:08 GMT
Lady & Gents I have received an e-mail from Paul Hopper (Friends of London's Transport Museum Project Manager for the restoration) in which he says he will be in touch. More info when I have had a conversation with him If you have any questions that you would like me to ask (I'll obviously be asking for updates/plans & how individuals can contribute etc etc) just post them below Regards Christopher |
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Jun 23, 2006 12:29:23 GMT
Lady & Gents
I haven't yet spoken with Paul Hopper, but he has provided some basic information in reply to an e-mail I sent him earlier this week(Paul's answers in bold italic):
What are the details of the project?
TO RESTORE THE FOUR CARS - 4184, 4416, 4417, 08063 - TO WORKING CONDITION TO OPERATE A NUMBER OF SCHEDULED SPECIALS EACH YEAR, REACHING AS MANY DISTRICT LINE EXTREMITIES AS POSSIBLE. 4184 BUILT AS A DRIVING MOTOR CAR WOULD FUNCTION AS A NON DRIVING TRAILER
Are the units suitable for restoration?
YES, THE FORMER LUL ENGINEERS WITH WHOM I AM WORKING BELIEVE THAT THERE IS NO REASON WHY THEY CANNOT RUN AGAIN - SUBJECT OF COURSE TO NOT FINDING ANY MAJOR CRACKS IN BOGIES ETC
A DETAILED TECHNICAL SPEC HAS BEEN PRODUCED AND POTENTIAL TENDERERS INVITED TO QUOTE FOR THE JOB
What financial backing is there for the project & what are the estimated costs of the project (depending on what information you can disclose at this stage)?
FINANCES IN OUTLINE
BOB GREENAWAY LEGACY £100k plus interest
HLF PROJECT PLANNING GRANT TO PREPARE THE CONSERVATION MANAGEMENT, ACCESS AND AUDIENCE DEVELOPMENT PLANS £45k TO BE MATCHED BY £9K FROM FRIENDS - INTEREST ON THE LEGACY
THEN MAIN BID TO HLF AROUND END OF YEAR/BEGINNING 2007 - MAX £1M AS THAT REQUIRES ONLY 10% MATCHED FINDING - WHICH THROUGH THE LEGACY WE HAVE
IF PROJECT COST GREATER THAN THAT, WE WILL HAVE TO CONSIDER OPTIONS, AS WOULD REQUIRE FRIENDS TO FIND £250K PLUS, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE
How is the project currently progressing?
THE PROJECT IS PROGRESSING WELL. WE HAVE A GOOD CASE, HAVE DONE A LOT OF PREPARATION AND ARE HOPEFULLY DOING A PROFESSIONAL JOB. BUT HLF FUNDING IS GETTING MUCH MORE COMPETITIVE, AND THE MUSEUM IS ALREADY GETTING A LOT OF HLF FUNDING FOR THE COVENT GARDEN PROJECT. WE KNOW THAT HLF IS INTERESTED IN ELECTRIC TRACTION COMPARED WITH THE GREATER AMOUNT OF STEAM/DIESEL PRESERVED. BUT IT WON'T BE EASY....
IF WE DO GET HLF FUNDING, START WORK MID TO LATE 2007, TO COMPLETE WELL BEFORE 2012 OLYMPICS
How can DD forum members contribute e.g. giving their experiences of the stock as well as technical knowledge) and perhaps even get involved in the restoration project?
WE WILL BE LOOKING FOR SKILLED VOLUNTEERS THROUGH THE WORK, AND ONCE RESTORED TO ACT AS STEWARDS ETC. IF ANY FORUM MEMBERS HAVE DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF WORKING WITH THE Q STOCK, PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE RECORDED FOR ORAL HISTORY PURPOSES. LIKEWISE, IF ANY HOLD ANY TECHNICAL INFO - ESP DRAWINGS - PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
If you would like to get in touch with Paul please PM/e-mail me and I will arrange (obviously I don't want to announce Paul's details publicly on the forum without his permission first).
Regards
Christopher
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Jun 23, 2006 13:41:24 GMT
I was so sorry to hear that Bob Greenaway had passed on. He and I worked with others on UndergrounD magazine when he lived at Hemel Hempstead. I believe he was very much connected with the LURS acquistion of the Q35 trailer. He then edited UD after I went to College. Bob had I believe worked on both bus and Underground sides with LT.
A very worthwhile and interesting project.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 24, 2006 13:51:04 GMT
It seems incredible that Bob passed away as long ago as 17 May 1999! he is certainly missed within the Society but his kind legacy will live on if the Q Stock project progresses.
It's a shame that car Q23 4248, that is currently in the LT Museum, doesn't seem to be part of this project- this would make a nice 5-car train instead!
|
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Jun 24, 2006 16:51:44 GMT
I am amazed and saddened that Bob had passed away and I knew nothing about it. I seem to recall that he was Gordon Hafter's assistant at one stage,. He ran the LURS book stall, and was heavily involved with Underground News, and of course with UndergrounD...well the later magazine of that name as there was in fact an earlier magazine called UndergrounD that preceded UN. I also seem to recal he had a younger wife.
It would indeed have been nice to have a have a 5-car train!
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Sept 5, 2006 18:52:24 GMT
Gents & Lady I have had a little update from the project manager of the Q stock restoration project: " The Q stock project progresses according to plan, with tenders sought from potential suppliers of the restoration work." I will of course keep you all up to date Regards Christopher |
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Sept 7, 2006 7:06:41 GMT
Gents & Lady As you will all probably be aware, questions have been raised in the Preserved 1938 Tube Stock thread regarding the use of, or rather lack of use under the Questions and Comments section of the forum (see hyperlink): districtdave.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1155752911I have raised this with Paul Hopper (Project Manager of the Q-stock unit restoration project) who has replied: " The Q stock "unit" will not be restored to running order unless we can run it! The frequency will be the subject of discussion between all the relevant parties - Museum, LUL, Infracos, Friends .... et al.
We would hope to arrange at least monthly outings between, say, April and September, on as many relevant parts of the network as possible. But we have to be realistic - LUL is running one of the most complex metros in the world.....
The issue of fitting modern kit likewise is still subject to discussion, and will obviously be of interest to whatever regulatory regime is in place at a given time.
" I am also trying to speak to the Museum regarding the 1938 stock unit - I will update that thread once I have some answers Regards Christopher |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2006 16:02:16 GMT
Out of curiosity what were the numbers for the various Q stock (minus the Q38 stock). I have been trying to find this info out but so far have had no luck! If someone doesn't mind posting the numbers it would be greatly appreciated.
|
|
|
|
Post by tubeprune on Sept 11, 2006 6:59:29 GMT
Once they were in block formations, they couldn't be uncoupled except from a pit because the jumpers were fixed IIRC.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2006 16:18:53 GMT
Thanks for the list. But could you please tell me which were which? ie which were Q23, Q35, etc.
|
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Sept 12, 2006 6:26:44 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2006 12:12:24 GMT
Thanks Phil, that was a great help. I actually have been hitting ebay lately, missed a couple of interesting books although yesterday I did manage to get the two 'Underground Train Files' by Brian Hardy so hopefully these will help. Only problem is my wife is buying one and she said something about Christmas! I guess I will have to wait a couple of months to get one of them. Yep its that time of year again! By the way where did 4248 come from (its not on the list)? Were some of the Q23's renumbered perhaps to clear the way for the 1967 stock? EDIT: No need to answer I found out that they were renumbered. Got the answer from a book I got in the mail today from Ebay! |
|
|
|
Post by compsci on Jan 1, 2007 10:38:00 GMT
Should have posted this as soon as I knew after the museum volunteers party at the beginning of December, but here goes.
Most of the grants have now been spent creating a truly vast pile of paperwork as required by the HLF for bids for large amounts of money. This was mostly done by a consultancy specialising in such work. Amongst the several unfortunate trees is a restoration plan (practically a step by step manual), access plan (this involves it exploring the east end a lot), training plan (makes sure that someone can fix it if it breaks in 50 years), conservation plan and several others.
A tender for the restoration was put out, with the only viable response being from Metronet. Unfortunately this has resulted in a monopoly situation, and so more funds will be required than were originally expected. As such the project moves from needing a "minor" grant of less than £1m to a "major" grant of more than £1m. This also requires that the Friends find 20% (or was it 25%) of the total rather than 10%. As such rather more fundraising will be required.
There are now three options for restoration. Firstly, and most preferred is full restoration so that it can move under its own power. If for some reason this proves impossible another option is to marshall it between some A or C stock motor cars which will become available after introduction of the S stock. Finally it could be restored as a static display.
If it proves impossible to get it moving again it is likely that the project will be a non starter. There is already a display unit in Covent Garden, and most of the access plan envisages the train coming to the people. Another part of this pretty much requires that the museum uses its existing assets to their full potential. In other words, if the 38ts is left as a stuffed bird then the HLF (who paid for it) won't feel confident throwing any more money around.
The bid documents are expected to be submitted in the next couple of months.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2007 12:44:15 GMT
... another option is to marshall it between some A or C stock motor cars which will become available after introduction of the S stock. I quite like the idea of marshalling it between A (not C!) stock motor cars. Not exactly authentic, but interesting! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2007 17:56:17 GMT
Another part of this pretty much requires that the museum uses its existing assets to their full potential. In other words, if the 38ts is left as a stuffed bird then the HLF (who paid for it) won't feel confident throwing any more money away Being fairly new to this forum, i didn't know the HLF contributed to the 38ts restoration. What condidtions did they attach to their grant for that. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Apr 13, 2007 12:30:34 GMT
GENTLE BUMP I've just had a chat with Paul Hopper (Project Manager of the Q-stock unit restoration project) Wheels/cogs are currently turning and there will be a update coming towards the end of April/beginning of May  Watch this space Christopher
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2007 16:38:55 GMT
could they rustle up the 5 or so cars of 1959 stock and make a full unit??@@!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris W on Apr 23, 2007 17:28:19 GMT
could they rustle up the 5 or so cars of 1959 stock and make a full unit??@@!!  Sorry DelBoy200 - if you weren't aware, the Q stocks were made up of various types of surface stock cars built between 1923 & 1938. I believe these were G (1923), K (1927), L (1931) M & N (1935) & Q* (1938) - fellow members please correct me if I'm wrong*O & P cars were very similar to the Q38 stock with the same 'family' resemblance/design being used on R47, R49 & R59 stock (I assume this is what you are referring to although I'm not sure if there are five R59 cars in existence). To my knowledge the Q stock were not compatible with the R stock units/cars when in service. Hope that's a useful pointer |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2007 17:28:42 GMT
GENTLE BUMP I've just had a chat with Paul Hopper (Project Manager of the Q-stock unit restoration project) Wheels/cogs are currently turning and there will be a update coming towards the end of April/beginning of May Watch this space Christopher Ahh, yes... that is good news... Last I heard they got some HLF funding agreed... I'm glad my donation has been useful... |
|
