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Post by sawb on Aug 15, 2014 18:53:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 9:48:26 GMT
It will take many years for First Great Western to build any relationship with its's victims/ customers given its truly abysmal attitude to customer service!
XF
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 17, 2014 10:35:10 GMT
Yes, also a singularly unfortunate name for a Transport Minister in the circumstances!
We suffer from FGW here in Plymouth, as the main operator. Staff are generally admirable, often helpful as circumstances allow, but with all the Unis & colleges we now have down here & into Cornwall, the trains get packed very quickly all year round & getting to the buffet would tax Hercules and his 12 labours, with pushchairs, suitcases, students and tourists to negotiate.
I'm afraid the attitude that seeps through is the old Mothers of Invention album title:
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 17, 2014 21:14:48 GMT
I had the misfortune of trying to catch a FGW service some time ago (I say try; they cancelled everything). Attempting to obtain a refund for the abandoned journey was a nightmare and they still fail to admit that they are responsible for refunding a passenger immediately in these circumstances, despite other parts of the rail industry confirming this is the case.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 17, 2014 21:33:08 GMT
For my thirtieth birthday I was treated by HWMBO to a Devon & Cornwall Ranger.
Whilst Cross Country did provide an HST with a table seat, I wasn't a fan of the FGW carriage where all the seats were pointing backwards. But then, FGW did pay for a Hackney Carriage to St Ives because the sprinter was broken and there were no busses to hand.
Trust was definitely a factor though as HWMBO insisted I finish my cyder early and we get the penultimate train home; bonus for me as I got to watch all the semaphores going limp for the trains.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 21:50:57 GMT
For my thirtieth birthday I was treated by HWMBO to a Devon & Cornwall Ranger. Whilst Cross Country did provide an HST with a table seat, I wasn't a fan of the FGW carriage where all the seats were pointing backwards. But then, FGW did pay for a Hackney Carriage to St Ives because the sprinter was broken and there were no busses to hand. Trust was definitely a factor though as HWMBO insisted I finish my cyder early and we get the penultimate train home; bonus for me as I got to watch all the semaphores going limp for the trains. Forgive me, what does HWMBO stand for? |
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Post by londonstuff on Aug 17, 2014 21:58:20 GMT
For my thirtieth birthday I was treated by HWMBO to a Devon & Cornwall Ranger. Whilst Cross Country did provide an HST with a table seat, I wasn't a fan of the FGW carriage where all the seats were pointing backwards. But then, FGW did pay for a Hackney Carriage to St Ives because the sprinter was broken and there were no busses to hand. Trust was definitely a factor though as HWMBO insisted I finish my cyder early and we get the penultimate train home; bonus for me as I got to watch all the semaphores going limp for the trains. Forgive me, what does HWMBO stand for? He Who Must Be Obeyed  And no, it's not me... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 22:02:14 GMT
Forgive me, what does HWMBO stand for? He Who Must Be Obeyed And no, it's not me... I see! Thanks  |
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 17, 2014 22:20:27 GMT
Cross Country also serve us in Plymouth.
Noticed they tend to provide about 65-70% seats facing in the direction of travel, as opposed to FGW's 50/50 split, at least in the pleb's carriages I have to use. Suggests somebody did some market research at one company.
CC's aisles are a little wider, hence why they do a mobile drinks/buffet person, rather than a counter. And, yes, for those interested that does include alcoholic beverages beyond the basic can of lager. Don't do a bad cappuccino, either.
On a purely personal level, they also invariably stop at Birmingham New Street, after around 2 & 3-quarter hours, where you change trains. The stop-over is always 15 minutes minimum, enough time to find the platform, carry suitcases to it, leave my wife & sprint back out for a cigarette, a good 40 mins or more sooner than I'd be able to do at Paddington, even if Charles Clarke's architecture isn't then present to be admired(side of the Great Western Hotel or front of the Tube Entrance).
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Post by domh245 on Aug 17, 2014 22:35:50 GMT
Cross Country also serve us in Plymouth.
Noticed they tend to provide about 65-70% seats facing in the direction of travel, as opposed to FGW's 50/50 split, at least in the pleb's carriages I have to use. Suggests somebody did some market research at one company. Surely that would be perspective. If 65-70% of seats are facing forward when you go to Birmingham, then only 30-35% are forward facing when going towards Penzance? As for the stops at Birmingham, I think it is because Birmingham is the hub of the XC network, and the reason for the generous dwell times there are mainly to do with pathing. If you have a train running from Penzance to Birmingham, and then off to Glasgow, if you timetable it with next to no allowance, then by the time you get to Glasgow, unless it is one of those days where nothing has happened anywhere on the network, you'll be massively late at Glasgow, and with a hefty bill. Hence the XC timetables are all padded, to allow for various incidents anywhere on the network. A bit like the excuses sometimes jokingly rolled out immediately after Eurostar started: "freight wagon derailed in Istanbul yard a week ago, 13:24 to Woking delayed by 23 minutes" such are the perils of long distance interconnected services |
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 18, 2014 9:39:29 GMT
Cross Country also serve us in Plymouth.
Noticed they tend to provide about 65-70% seats facing in the direction of travel, as opposed to FGW's 50/50 split, at least in the pleb's carriages I have to use. Suggests somebody did some market research at one company.
Back in May, we did a few days out by rail & caught Cross Country back to Plymouth from Exeter & Newton Abbot once each. I noticed both trains were marshalled in the same carriage order as on the way up ie A behind the engine, F or H at the rear.
So I reckon they do actually reverse them when they terminate, or they start from Edinburgh, Liverpool etc in the same carriage order & seating ratios as when they start from Penzance. Both carriages we sat in going home were in that ratio, but we didn't traipse through the train to check the others were the same, as we I had done on the way up on Cross Country.
The only problem I have had with Cross Country has been an occasional 4-carriage service in off-peak times. Not a regular occurrence, but they don't always anticipate correctly which parts of the route can get crowded, and make it up to 6. Part of the reason is that there are a lot of West Midland people who've retired down here over the last 30-odd years, compared to mainly Geordies, Scousers and Scots before that, so a lot more who want to occasionally be reminded of the delights of Brum/visit relatives. |
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Post by domh245 on Aug 18, 2014 10:13:37 GMT
Its worth pointing out that whilst 9 times out of 10 you should be able to have a little break at New Street, you may end up on a service that has ended up running late, or has little padding in it anyway, with a resulting short stop at New Street Unfortunately, XC have been left with a situation that is best described as far from ideal! Way back when (before I was born) XC trains used to be a number of Mk2 Carriages marshalled behinds a 47 or other diesel locomotive. Virgin took the franchise over at privatisation, and decided to change things up a bit. They decided the way forward was shorter trains but more frequently, so they ordered the voyagers and super voyagers to run their services, but the shorter trains would be compensated for by the fact that there were more trains per hour. Unfortunately, they got this gamble wrong, and now XC passengers are stuck with short trains which are almost always overcrowded. XC have recently(ish) bought in some other stock in the form of the HSTs, which operate on certain services, and are longer than the voyagers. Voyager:  HST:  I've also had a look through the seating plans here and the trains do seem to have an even split between the direction of the seating, but I was only checking very quickly! I'll also leave you with a link to this useful little website. It should be fairly self explanatory, and it will allow you to see what path your train is supposed to take, and how long it is supposed to be at each station for. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 18, 2014 12:59:39 GMT
As for the stops at Birmingham, I think it is because Birmingham is the hub of the XC network, and the reason for the generous dwell times there are mainly to do with pathing. I don't think he was talking about generous dwell times, as he said he had to change trains. However, the dwell times do tend to be generous, partly for the reaqsons given and partly to allow chages to be made in both directions. I noticed both trains were marshalled in the same carriage order as on the way up ie A behind the engine, F or H at the rear So I reckon they do actually reverse them when they terminate, or they start from Edinburgh, Liverpool etc in the same carriage order & seating ratios as when they start from Penzance.. I don't think there is any way of turning a train end for end at Penzance, or indeed anywhere west of Bristol. I can't even imagine they would bother sending a train out from Edinburgh to Dalmeny just to turn it round. However, you would have the same coach leading the train on leaving Plymouth for Edinburgh as you have on leaving Edinburgh for Plymouth if the trains reverse en route - as they would if they call at Gloucester, or at Birmingham if they use the WCML route (via Preston) - but not if they use the ECML (via York). XC have recently(ish) bought in some other stock in the form of the HSTs, which operate on certain services, and are longer than the voyagers.. Virgin Cross Country had a handful of HSTs but, typically for Branson's franchises, junked them for shiny new toys which weren't as good (compare a Pendolino with a well-maintained Mk3 such as those on Chiltern or East Coast). XC has recently managed to lease some of the HSTs back again, together with a few surplus to East Midland's requirements. |
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 18, 2014 15:50:24 GMT
As regards trolleys, it's a financial thing more than anything else - people might not think of getting up and going to the buffet, but - "ooh, here's the man with the trolley, you know what, I could do with a cup of tea and a kit-kat". With the proliferation of catering outlets at/around stations the traditional "BR sandwich" must have a more limited market these days. I can't even imagine they would bother sending a train out from Edinburgh to Dalmeny just to turn it round. FWIW, it's possible to go out the "wrong way" from Edinburgh and turn around via the south suburban line... equally, at Newcastle via the Bridges. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 18, 2014 17:36:37 GMT
, it's possible to go out the "wrong way" from Edinburgh and turn around via the south suburban line... equally, at Newcastle via the Bridges. I've been on a cross country train that did that - apparetntly to turn it the right way round. Is the Edinburgh suburban line cleared for passenger use? There are other ways trains can get back to front as well - if the lowland sleeper is routed via the ECML it ends up back to front (although the Highland doesn't) |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 18, 2014 18:18:12 GMT
I don't think there is any way of turning a train end for end at Penzance, or indeed anywhere west of Bristol. I suppose strictly speaking it is possible to do it a Norton Fitzwarren (west of Taunton) though it make some time as I'm not sure how long the spurs are on the triangle. Rather than debating National Rail services in the West Country, perhaps we could get back to the issue of "trust"? |
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 18, 2014 18:20:37 GMT
In several years travelling that way I have been around a few times - once due to a problem with the DVT (so the locomotive needed to be at the front, presumably some cab issue), other times the train was originally the wrong way around, another time I seem to remember a points problem, etc.
The south suburban line is, although it is not regularly used.
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Post by theblackferret on Aug 18, 2014 20:28:56 GMT
I don't think there is any way of turning a train end for end at Penzance, or indeed anywhere west of Bristol. I suppose strictly speaking it is possible to do it a Norton Fitzwarren (west of Taunton) though it make some time as I'm not sure how long the spurs are on the triangle. Rather than debating National Rail services in the West Country, perhaps we could get back to the issue of "trust"?
Compared & contrasted to FGW, who did score amongst the worst in the trust aspect. Perhaps, even if it is an oblique way of reaching that conclusion, they give people the impression they don't know what they're doing because they don't disclose enough & aren't therefore well trusted?
I wonder if things were any different in the days of the Big Four? The GWR has been given a glowing reputation from history, but it was also intransigent to the point of obstinacy-remember the famous quote by a station master on it about why a market-day branch train couldn't be run at a convenient time to connect with the main line:-"Other railways may have different ways of doing things; The GWR does thing the GWR way."
So, is this issue of trust down to the now ever-pervasive media investigation and vigilance in everything, or are there genuine grounds to distrust? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2014 16:14:11 GMT
FGW not only mistrust their customers they treat their staff the same too! This a warning to the unwary if you have the wrong ticket issued to you after you have paid by credit or debit card due to a genuine mistake by one of the ticketing staff.
Despite it being the fault of the FGW staff the customer has to claim a refund by filling out a form by hand with all their details bank etc and hand it back ti the FGW member of staff . You will get the refund paid into your account after @ 14 days! Here is the real rub you also have to purchase another ticket so if it was a very expensive ticket you could conceivably be unable to pay as you could exceed your credit limit on your credo/debit card! Where else apart from the world of First does this happen as its illegal to do this all high stores and online retailers have to refund money and usually do it there and then. Guess what FGW has also disabled the ability on all of their credit/debit card machines to do this!
My colleague awhile ago was ushered off a train at Slough Station due to an incident on the line. They were directed to the local bus service run by First but the driver told them they must all pay the bus fare and claim it back from First Great Western. One company with many greedy fools.in charge me thinks!
XF
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