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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 2:57:12 GMT
Where you have a repeater of two signals on different routes, am I to understand that the repeater accurately repeats the particular signal on the route that is set for the train? Allow me to clarify. Take, for example, signal RWL109.89, which is on the eastbound road from Ealing Common, just outside Acton Town. WL109 is to the left, the home signal for the eastbound local and WL89 is to the right, the home signal for the eastbound fast. Presumably, RWL109.89 repeats either WL109 or WL89, depending on which route an approaching train has been given? The reason I just want to check (this seems the obvious thing to do, and it's difficult to imagine why you would want to do the alternative) is that - in general - if you have a repeater repeating more than one signal, it repeats all of them. So, for example, staying on the eastbound local, R563 B.WKX563 C (between Acton Town and Chiswick Park) does not repeat either signal, I believe, it repeats both, and will only show a green aspect if both signals are green. Obviously it would be barmy to apply that principle to RWL109.89, but I just wanted to check that my understanding of both instances wasn't faulty. Any corrections are obviously welcome!  |
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Post by v52gc on Aug 9, 2014 11:37:25 GMT
You're correct on both points.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 12:34:44 GMT
Ah lovely, thank you! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2014 15:02:30 GMT
As a variant on this theme, I'm wondering about RED19, which is combined with signal ED23 and is located on the eastbound approach to High Street Kensington, from Earl's Court and triangle sidings. ED19 is located on the approach to platform 2 and would only be passed by a train routed to platform 2. Trains routed to platforms 3 and 4 would not pass this signal. I am wondering if here - and at other, similar, locations - the aspect of RED19 is suppressed if the route is not set for platform 2 (to avoid confusion), or does it repeat ED19 in all circumstances?
Another example would be RWD40A/1, which is combined with WD43 and is located at Barons Court on the westbound local (WD43 is the station starter). WD40A is on the westbound local and so would only be passed by trains which have been given the route to Hammersmith via the local. Suppose WD43 were to clear with three white lights at 45°, which indicates that the route to Hammersmith via the westbound fast is set (a route which does not take a train past WD40A). Would the repeater still show an aspect in this case?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 9, 2014 20:32:37 GMT
I'm not sure on those particular examples, but can check. I would expect that either they are suppressed or display a yellow when the running signal they are associated with is cleared for the alternative route.
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roythebus
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Post by roythebus on Aug 10, 2014 1:03:14 GMT
As a variant on this theme, I'm wondering about RED19, which is combined with signal ED23 and is located on the eastbound approach to High Street Kensington, from Earl's Court and triangle sidings. ED19 is located on the approach to platform 2 and would only be passed by a train routed to platform 2. Trains routed to platforms 3 and 4 would not pass this signal. I am wondering if here - and at other, similar, locations - the aspect of RED19 is suppressed if the route is not set for platform 2 (to avoid confusion), or does it repeat ED19 in all circumstances? Another example would be RWD40 A/1, which is combined with WD43 and is located at Barons Court on the westbound local (WD43 is the station starter). WD40 A is on the westbound local and so would only be passed by trains which have been given the route to Hammersmith via the local. Suppose WD43 were to clear with three white lights at 45°, which indicates that the route to Hammersmith via the westbound fast is set (a route which does not take a train past WD40 A). Would the repeater still show an aspect in this case? The famous RED19, the only repeater that shows red!! |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 10, 2014 6:41:24 GMT
The famous RED19, the only repeater that shows red!! The RED signal you are allowed to pass? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 16:29:42 GMT
try also RED230
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 16:36:10 GMT
Some repeaters are switched over points an example is the repeater as you leave Earls Ct going west if the route is set to West Brompton then the repeater by the points can't think of the number is suppressed as not to confuse the drivers. There is quite a few where the lighting circuit for the lamps are switched over points.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 16:49:47 GMT
Some repeaters are switched over points an example is the repeater as you leave Earls Ct going west if the route is set to West Brompton then the repeater by the points can't think of the number is suppressed as not to confuse the drivers. There is quite a few where the lighting circuit for the lamps are switched over points. Thanks So would these two repeaters be an example of that, do you think - they wouldn't show an aspect unless the route which takes trains past the relevant signal is set? |
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Post by programmes1 on Aug 10, 2014 17:47:21 GMT
Don't forget RED20,RED174,RED1740 and there are FREDs as well. If you are at Gloucester Road there are a number of FREEs. I think the repeaters you mention are REC250/25 or REC330/33.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 17:48:10 GMT
What at Acton? They would have to be switched over the points. If your referring to the signal at High St Ken I don't think it is suppressed I could find out tomorrow but for a quick answer I'm sure a driver could confirm this quicker. Regarding Barons Court WD43 again I'm not 100% sure but if the ID plate for the repeater only says RWD40/1 then for the other routes the repeater should show either a perm yellow or suppressed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 18:09:46 GMT
What at Acton? They would have to be switched over the points. If your referring to the signal at High St Ken I don't think it is suppressed I could find out tomorrow but for a quick answer I'm sure a driver could confirm this quicker. Regarding Barons Court WD43 again I'm not 100% sure but if the ID plate for the repeater only says RWD40/1 then for the other routes the repeater should show either a perm yellow or suppressed. I was thinking of RED19 and RWD40 A/1. It'd be nice to know for sure, because I was thinking of using both of these as examples in a short explanation, but there's no need to worry too much, I can always just a short footnote saying that it's one of the two Thanks for the help so far, all I must say I'm surprised to hear that RED19 may not be suppressed, unless it shows yellow permanently, or yellow unless the route to ED19 is set, because I don't think there are any signals after ED23 on the routes to the bay roads. So if ED19 were clear for an outer rail circle, you could have green over green as the signal before the FRLs in the bay roads - I would have thought they would've avoided that one way or the other? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2014 19:54:56 GMT
ED23 is the last signal before the bay roads
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 22:37:55 GMT
RED19 is switched over 22 points if the points are reverse it will show a green if they are set normal it will show a yellow
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2014 22:51:16 GMT
Thanks for checking for me!
So, to put that another way, if ED23 shows a straight green (route into platform 4) or green with three white lights at 45° (route into platform 3), RED19 will be yellow, regardless of the aspect of ED19, and if ED23 shows green with three white lights horizontally (route into platform 2, which takes a train past ED19), RED19 will repeat the aspect of ED19; is that correct? (Just to make sure I've understood.) Is that the same for RWD40A/1?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 5:01:28 GMT
For High ST Ken yes but for Hammersmith I will look when I get 5mins
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 5:47:56 GMT
There is no surpression for RWD40a/1 so if WD43rt2 or 3 is clear then it will only show a yellow
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 10:50:31 GMT
Ah that's lovely Thanks so much! You've been a great help. Purely out of interest - how did you find out? |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 12, 2014 12:44:07 GMT
DistrictSOM's job is District line signalling, so he's a subject matter expert  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 12:47:36 GMT
No doubt about that! I just didn't think repeaters were shown on the control room display, and I couldn't find any reference on the signalling diagrams Dave provided on the main site. I guess there must be documents detailing all of this stuff, but I know very little about that side of things - it'd be interesting to hear more about life in Earl's Court. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 12, 2014 13:57:46 GMT
You're making incorrect assumptions!
I never said he is a signaller nor did I say where he is located.
And signallers diagrams don't show repeaters - repeaters exist soley to give drivers advanced information on the state of the road ahead.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 14:13:55 GMT
Oooops, you're quite right - it's obvious why I'm keen to know more about what's involved in District line signalling - I simply don't know very much.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 19:34:28 GMT
Ah that's lovely Thanks so much! You've been a great help. Purely out of interest - how did you find out? Now that would be telling |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2014 19:35:04 GMT
DistrictSOM's job is District line signalling, so he's a subject matter expert I hope so |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 15, 2014 21:27:23 GMT
You're making incorrect assumptions! And signallers diagrams don't show repeaters - repeaters exist soley to give drivers advanced information on the state of the road ahead. Actually Colin, it depends on the site - The diagram in Harrow on the Hill cabin shows them (for the Harrow area at least) though they're only drawn on and don't illuminate. |
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Post by Colin on Aug 16, 2014 23:25:20 GMT
I stand corrected in that case.
Would that be to aid in determining the position of a train, of for some other reason?
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Post by North End on Aug 17, 2014 22:35:54 GMT
I'm not sure on those particular examples, but can check. I would expect that either they are suppressed or display a yellow when the running signal they are associated with is cleared for the alternative route. One historic example I can think of where the repeater aspect was suppressed for one of the two routes: TM.1 and RTMX.118 approaching North Greenwich e/b. With TM.1(1) clear for the route to Platform 3, RTMX.118 would display no aspect. With TM.1(2) clear for the route to Platform 2, RTMX.118 would illuminate. To complicate further, the plans show TMX.118 itself being approach lit! I seem to recall a reflective sign mounted adjacent to RTMX.118 stating something like "Only illuminates when route set for Platform 2". Thinking to the Northern Line, the only example that springs to mind is G.39, which was mounted above repeater RG.38. I can't recall 100%, but I *think* when G.39(2) route was selected this repeater illuminated yellow, though in this situation G.38 would show no aspect. I'd have to check the moves DVD to confirm. All history now of course. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2014 23:30:00 GMT
All history now of course.  |
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 19, 2014 16:51:02 GMT
I stand corrected in that case. Would that be to aid in determining the position of a train, of for some other reason? Possibly, but there aren't many stand-alone repeaters there. It may just be a quirk of Harrow - it's a very odd place! |
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