class411
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Post by class411 on Jul 26, 2014 10:13:24 GMT
I have noticed this on several occasions now.
As an S7 arrives at Baker street there is an announcement of the form: 'The rear two doors will not open'.
This frequently results in passengers, particularly tourists, walking from the rear two doors to the second pair of doors, then having to make a mad dash to the fifth and sixth doors to obtain egress.
This could be made clearer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 21:16:16 GMT
It is announced at GPS/Edgeware Road so they should have enough time to move
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 21:24:12 GMT
Yes, but as I understand class411's original post, the problem is that some passengers are misinterpreting the announcement 'the rear two doors will not open' to mean that only the last pair of doors (one set of doors, consisting of two individual leaves) will not open and so move to the second set of doors in error, when - in fact - they need to move to the third set of doors.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 21:37:48 GMT
I see now.
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Post by crusty54 on Jul 27, 2014 3:39:33 GMT
The problem at Baker Street eastbound is that all the doors in the rear car do not open.
Causing significant problems with no access to the Bakerloo line at Paddington and passengers being told to use the Circle/H&C.
The announcement is very quiet in the rear car and can hardly be heard in a crowded train. The message is too long for the scrolling message.
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Post by t697 on Jul 27, 2014 20:28:06 GMT
I have noticed this on several occasions now. As an S7 arrives at Baker street there is an announcement of the form: 'The rear two doors will not open'. This frequently results in passengers, particularly tourists, walking from the rear two doors to the second pair of doors, then having to make a mad dash to the fifth and sixth doors to obtain egress. This could be made clearer. A bit puzzling this one, the EB announcement is (or should be!) actually about 3 doorways in the rear car and the WB one about 1 doorway in the rear car. Neither direction should announce 2 doorways being cut out in the rear car. Which direction did you think the announcement was about 2 doorways in the rear car? To complete the picture, EB 1 front doorway doesn't open and WB 2 front doorways don't open. |
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Post by jamesb on Jul 27, 2014 23:05:33 GMT
From memory, and looking on youtube, the announcement is "The last two doors will not open here. Please use other doors". There is also a red sign that says not in use above the door. There are also signs on the platform / tunnel wall... The tourists in question might not understand or even listen to the announcement even if it said the last two doorways, or last two sets of doors.... Most people aren't listening to the announcement anyway, too busy chatting! I have noticed this on several occasions now. As an S7 arrives at Baker street there is an announcement of the form: 'The rear two doors will not open'. This frequently results in passengers, particularly tourists, walking from the rear two doors to the second pair of doors, then having to make a mad dash to the fifth and sixth doors to obtain egress. This could be made clearer. A bit puzzling this one, the EB announcement is (or should be!) actually about 3 doorways in the rear car and the WB one about 1 doorway in the rear car. Neither direction should announce 2 doorways being cut out in the rear car. Which direction did you think the announcement was about 2 doorways in the rear car? To complete the picture, EB 1 front doorway doesn't open and WB 2 front doorways don't open. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jul 28, 2014 7:34:55 GMT
From memory, and looking on youtube, the announcement is "The last two doors will not open here. Please use other doors". There is also a red sign that says not in use above the door. There are also signs on the platform / tunnel wall... The tourists in question might not understand or even listen to the announcement even if it said the last two doorways, or last two sets of doors.... Most people aren't listening to the announcement anyway, too busy chatting! Except: "This frequently results in passengers, particularly tourists, walking from the rear two doors to the second pair of doors" So they were clearly listening and understood the literal meaning of the message. Signs on the tunnel walls are not much help because by the time you see them you will already have made your mistake. Signs above doors are not really much use if people are trying to manoeuvre their way through a crowded train with their luggage. (They're also not very noticeable because I didn't see them even though I was looking directly at the closed doors.) A bit puzzling this one, the EB announcement is (or should be!) actually about 3 doorways in the rear car and the WB one about 1 doorway in the rear car. Neither direction should announce 2 doorways being cut out in the rear car. Which direction did you think the announcement was about 2 doorways in the rear car? I have been in the rear carriage of an Eastbound train when I have seen this. Last Monday, this is what happened. The announcement said that the rear two doors would not open. The tourists then moved from the rear two doors to the second set. These, of course, didn't open. They then just had time to get to the third set of doors, which were open, to obtain egress. I doubt if they would have managed to get out if the third pair of doors had not been open. |
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Post by John Tuthill on Jul 28, 2014 8:58:56 GMT
From memory, and looking on youtube, the announcement is "The last two doors will not open here. Please use other doors". There is also a red sign that says not in use above the door. There are also signs on the platform / tunnel wall... The tourists in question might not understand or even listen to the announcement even if it said the last two doorways, or last two sets of doors.... Most people aren't listening to the announcement anyway, too busy chatting! Except: "This frequently results in passengers, particularly tourists, walking from the rear two doors to the second pair of doors" So they were clearly listening and understood the literal meaning of the message. Signs on the tunnel walls are not much help because by the time you see them you will already have made your mistake. Signs above doors are not really much use if people are trying to manoeuvre their way through a crowded train with their luggage. (They're also not very noticeable because I didn't see them even though I was looking directly at the closed doors.) A bit puzzling this one, the EB announcement is (or should be!) actually about 3 doorways in the rear car and the WB one about 1 doorway in the rear car. Neither direction should announce 2 doorways being cut out in the rear car. Which direction did you think the announcement was about 2 doorways in the rear car? I have been in the rear carriage of an Eastbound train when I have seen this. Last Monday, this is what happened. The announcement said that the rear two doors would not open. The tourists then moved from the rear two doors to the second set. These, of course, didn't open. They then just had time to get to the third set of doors, which were open, to obtain egress. I doubt if they would have managed to get out if the third pair of doors had not been open. Surely the answer is: "Please use the doors at the front of the car to exit the train", or words to that effect?  |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jul 28, 2014 9:24:54 GMT
Surely the answer is: "Please use the doors at the front of the car to exit the train", or words to that effect? Indeed. As I said, it would be easy to correct. Although I think the best approach would probably be to simply mandate that the last carriage is not to be used for any stations where SDO is required. This seems to work very well where I have seen it used by BR. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 18:17:15 GMT
Signs above doors are not really much use if people are trying to manoeuvre their way through a crowded train with their luggage. (They're also not very noticeable because I didn't see them even though I was looking directly at the closed doors.) "X Doors not in use" lights up in red above doors which are disabled by SDO, but only when all other doors are open so, again, I agree that it doesn't really give enough time for people to reliably correct their mistake (let alone avoid making it in the first place). |
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Post by t697 on Jul 28, 2014 19:32:01 GMT
Despite the OP re-stating that they saw a set of doors on the last car on an EB train open one set of doors, I feel there is some mistake. All 3 doorways do not open and indeed the last doorway of car 6 only just fits on the platform at Baker St platform 5 EB.
Regarding the 'door' or 'doorway', you can never please everyone as indeed some other posts have suggested.
We tell passengers about it at the previous station, we tell them again on the run in to the station concerned and rather belatedly we tell them again at the platform concerned. The announcement at the platform is necessarily later so that the RVAR essential parts (This station and next station) get announced early as the law says they have to be while the doors are open.
Basically if you don't pay attention or know the route you'll get caught out. But LU doesn't charge anything if you go to the next station and come back again. And if stairs are a problem, go to King's Cross and back.
Corporately LU decided to have these new longer trains for higher capacity, extending the platforms where it was economically practicable and that didn't include Baker Street 5 & 6.
As for "if it's SDO, cut out all 3 doorways", this is very counter productive on busy metro services with short dwell times. The S stock scheme allows all doors that fit the available platform to open. Indeed Baker St 5 is the only platform with as many as 3 doors cut out at one end.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 19:36:24 GMT
Indeed Baker St 5 is the only platform with as many as 3 doors cut out at one end. Doesn't Notting Hill Gate have that many as well? I could be wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 19:48:46 GMT
On the DLR, the message is:
"This train is for >destination of train<. The next stop is >next stop<. At >next stop< the first two SETS and last two SETS of doors will not open.
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Post by t697 on Jul 28, 2014 19:54:30 GMT
NHG 1 WB/Inner Rail is 2 front & 2 rear cut out. NHG 2 EB/Outer Rail is 1 front & 2 rear cut out. If you've experienced 3 cut out it could have been an undershoot or overshoot missing the beacon and needing to override.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 20:03:27 GMT
I thought I'd experienced 3 but I could be mistaken. The missed beacon explanation, though, is also very plausible  Thanks for clarifying |
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Post by Hassaan on Jul 28, 2014 20:17:53 GMT
NHG 1 WB/Inner Rail is 2 front & 2 rear cut out. NHG 2 EB/Outer Rail is 1 front & 2 rear cut out. If you've experienced 3 cut out it could have been an undershoot or overshoot missing the beacon and needing to override.
I did randomly hear "All doors in this car will not open here, please use other doors" at a station after all doors were correctly in the platform and had opened 
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Post by t697 on Jul 28, 2014 20:18:32 GMT
On the DLR, the message is: "This train is for >destination of train<. The next stop is >next stop<. At >next stop< the first two SETS and last two SETS of doors will not open. Yes that seems sensible, I'm not sure why that 'sets' principle wasn't chosen for S stock. In the Baker Street platform 5 case I'm pretty sure it says something like 'All doors in this car will not open. ...'. So at least that one's not too confusing! |
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Post by domh245 on Jul 28, 2014 20:22:46 GMT
I think what could be very useful is if Journey Planner could do some forewarning, seeing as it would mainly be people who are not used to the system that would be caught out. It could be something as simple as:
Goldhawk Road - Baker Street /!\ Do not travel in the first or last carriage, as the doors in theses cars will not open at your destination
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Post by Hassaan on Jul 28, 2014 20:24:49 GMT
On the DLR, the message is: "This train is for >destination of train<. The next stop is >next stop<. At >next stop< the first two SETS and last two SETS of doors will not open. Yes that seems sensible, I'm not sure why that 'sets' principle wasn't chosen for S stock. In the Baker Street platform 5 case I'm pretty sure it says something like 'All doors in this car will not open. ...'. So at least that one's not too confusing! The DLR reminds you about it several times! 1. After leaving two stations before: "The next stop is Cyprus. At Gallions Reach the first two sets and last two sets of doors will not open, to alight please move towards the centre of the train"Next station announced as normal on approach and after stopping. 2. After leaving: "The next stop is Gallions Reach, to alight please move towards the centre of the train, as, the first two sets and last two sets of doors will not open"3. On approach: "This train is for Beckton, the next stop is Gallions Reach, to alight please move towards the centre of the train"4. After stopping: "This is Gallions Reach, to alight please move towards the centre of the train" |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Jul 28, 2014 23:56:22 GMT
At West Brompton WB, the first set of doors do not open. I travel on the Wimbledon branch almost everyday and I think that there is too much of a gap between "This is West Brompton. The next station is Fulham Broadway. This is a District line train to Wimbledon", and "The front doors will not open here. Please use other doors". By the time the latter announcement is heard on the DVA, most drivers have already closed the doors! I'm not at all saying that drivers are doing anything wrong, I'm just saying I think the gap between the two is way too long. Not sure how long it is at other stations.
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jul 29, 2014 8:32:48 GMT
Despite the OP re-stating that they saw a set of doors on the last car on an EB train open one set of doors, I feel there is some mistake. All 3 doorways do not open and indeed the last doorway of car 6 only just fits on the platform at Baker St platform 5 EB. I'll tell you exactly what happened. Some Japanese tourists got up and approached the very end doors. I had just attracted the attention of one of them to tell them they needed to move up when an announcement was made about the last two doors not opening. They then moved to the middle set of doors as the train came to a halt. They quickly saw that these doors did not open and moved to the third set in the carriage from which others were exiting. |
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Post by CSLR on Jul 29, 2014 10:26:40 GMT
Such problems did not exist with gate stock.
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Dstock7080
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 29, 2014 15:42:10 GMT
Showing the wording applied to Staff notices and Operating Instructions:    ? -released or open; ? -proved closed and locked; ? -Selective Door Operation; ? -fault; ? -sensitive edge activation; ? -status unknown ? ? -active cab ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 21:18:47 GMT
One easy way round is to announce "Please don't use the rear or front most car when travelling to Baker Street" (Depending on the direction of travel).
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jul 30, 2014 2:06:18 GMT
Affix notes to the carriage line maps in those cars only?
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Post by crusty54 on Jul 30, 2014 5:59:09 GMT
Affix notes to the carriage line maps in those cars only? Already there |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 30, 2014 6:50:55 GMT
Affix notes to the carriage line maps in those cars only? Already there Except that "those cars" will not always be the same - As I understand it, S7s can be turned in service, as C stocks were 'All doors in this car will not open. ...'. So at least that one's not too confusing! Implies that some doors will open. Better is "No doors will open......" |
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Post by crusty54 on Jul 30, 2014 20:56:29 GMT
Except that "those cars" will not always be the same - As I understand it, S7s can be turned in service, as C stocks were Which is why the signs are in the first and last cars on the trains. |
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class411
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Post by class411 on Jul 31, 2014 8:14:29 GMT
Except that "those cars" will not always be the same - As I understand it, S7s can be turned in service, as C stocks were Which is why the signs are in the first and last cars on the trains. He was referring to a message where someone said they had heard the message. (Which was apparently completely spurious, anyway.) |
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