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Post by melikepie on Feb 5, 2014 19:24:12 GMT
The sea wall and railway line at Dawlish have washed away. It is amazing seeing the rails suspended in mid air whilst the waves crash underneath but this is a poor thing to happen for those in Devon and Cornwall www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26042990 |
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Post by John Tuthill on Feb 5, 2014 19:44:14 GMT
The sea wall and railway line at Dawlish have washed away. It is amazing seeing the rails suspended in mid air whilst the waves crash underneath but this is a poor thing to happen for those in Devon and Cornwall www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26042990Maybe now its the opportunity to build a tunnel? Brunel built it as it is as it was cheaper and quicker.  |
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Post by Chris M on Feb 5, 2014 20:31:43 GMT
The politicians today will also want cheap and quick  |
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Post by motorman on Feb 5, 2014 20:55:54 GMT
With hindsight what a mistake it was to have lost the Southern route to Plymouth via Oakehampton.
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Post by rdm on Feb 6, 2014 10:59:22 GMT
Or the Teign Valley line - not ideal as mainly single, but still a bolt-hole in emergencies such as this loss of the sea-wall stretch of the main line.
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Post by John Tuthill on Feb 6, 2014 11:06:37 GMT
Or the Teign Valley line - not ideal as mainly single, but still a bolt-hole in emergencies such as this loss of the sea-wall stretch of the main line. If a tunnel was decided upon, does the amount of traffic justify a two track tunnel? A single bore with token operation might be sufficient? |
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Post by melikepie on Feb 6, 2014 11:09:59 GMT
Well when you take into account potential increase in services, delays, the mix of intercities and local traffic as well as freight traffic and the places that the line serves, it would be barmy not to have the line as double track. Right let's decrease the North London Line to single track to free up more space!
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Post by John Tuthill on Feb 6, 2014 11:32:21 GMT
Well when you take into account potential increase in services, delays, the mix of intercities and local traffic as well as freight traffic and the places that the line serves, it would be barmy not to have the line as double track. Right let's decrease the North London Line to single track to free up more space! Melikepie, It was a genuine question. I don't know the capacity of the traffic thru' Dawlish. It was an open question to those who know the train diagrams better than me, and the cost implications of tunnelling. |
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Post by melikepie on Feb 6, 2014 11:51:53 GMT
Okay I'm sorry for that
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Post by John Tuthill on Feb 6, 2014 11:56:41 GMT
No problem  |
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Post by revupminster on Feb 6, 2014 12:02:27 GMT
There are not a great deal of trains, 1 Penzance/Plymouth - Paddington 1 Penzance/Plymouth - Virgin cross country supplemented by a couple of Paignton- Paddington's and a couple of Paignton-virgin cross country during the day. There are local Paignton- Exeter/Exmouth trains, two funded by the EU between Paignton-Exeter. They are trying to make a half hour service between Paignton and Newton Abbot. So there about three passenger trains in the hour in each direction.
One of the other problems is the line alongside the Exe Estuary where rising sea levels poses a bigger threat than storms.
A new main line is needed inland between Exeter and Newton Abbot, would probably knock 10 minutes off the journey time and leave the coastal route to the local trains and the summer steam trains but then any future problems would not be seen as a priority for repair.
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Post by melikepie on Feb 6, 2014 12:04:47 GMT
The South Devon Main Line has a mixture of intercity traffic from both First Great Western approximately hourly Paddington to Plymouth with a few extensions to Penzance. There are also CrossCountry services which go to Birmingham as well as local services by First Great Western from Penzance and Plymouth as well as Torquay funelling through Dawlish which also run approximately hourly. There are also the Sleepers. As for freight, Cornwall is still a major source of gravel and china clay and I would not be surprised if there are still mines open. So when you take into account all of these services, a single line track would not be able to cope unless the timetabling was extremely precise.
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Post by John Tuthill on Feb 6, 2014 12:07:05 GMT
There are not a great deal of trains, 1 Penzance/Plymouth - Paddington 1 Penzance/Plymouth - Virgin cross country supplemented by a couple of Paignton- Paddington's and a couple of Paignton-virgin cross country during the day. There are local Paignton- Exeter/Exmouth trains, two funded by the EU between Paignton-Exeter. They are trying to make a half hour service between Paignton and Newton Abbot. So there about three passenger trains in the hour in each direction. One of the other problems is the line alongside the Exe Estuary where rising sea levels poses a bigger threat than storms. A new main line is needed inland between Exeter and Newton Abbot, would probably knock 10 minutes off the journey time and leave the coastal route to the local trains and the summer steam trains but then any future problems would not be seen as a priority for repair. Thanks for that, I didn't realise there were only three trains p/h in each direction. I can imagine someone at Network Rail looking over the pre Beeching maps to see if there's still an inland right of way |
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Post by melikepie on Feb 6, 2014 12:13:46 GMT
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Post by bassmike on Feb 6, 2014 14:30:41 GMT
Use some of the money for the ridiculos HS2 to upgrade and future-proof this section.
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Post by rsdworker on Feb 6, 2014 14:39:08 GMT
well that looked simllar to A line in New york whick had washed away leaving the nothing below after big storm but if they built a steel and strong structure with protection frin waves like strong steel seawater wall its would protected it
and i agree Govment should STOP HS2 and focus on the storm proofing the railways
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Post by phillw48 on Feb 6, 2014 15:01:16 GMT
They are going to rebuild the line as it is the only viable option. Apart from the engineering difficulties of making an inland route there are enormous legal difficulties to overcome. If the coast route can be rebuilt to withstand any similar storms to those that we are having at the moment, which the engineers say is possible, there is no reason why it will not last another 175 years.
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Post by melikepie on Feb 6, 2014 16:25:10 GMT
As I expected, it has now been announced that instead of 6-8 weeks to fix, it will take many months. Apparently the government are looking into alternatives as well as pledging £30 million towards the line www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26061795 |
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Post by revupminster on Feb 6, 2014 17:54:08 GMT
They are running trains between Plymouth and Penzance and between Paignton and Newton Abbot. I am surprised they have not run between Plymouth and Newton Abbot. There is a good road A38/A380 for replacement buses. I wonder how many trains they keep at Laira Depot and how many trains First Great Western and Virgin trains have trapped down there.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 17:54:26 GMT
Use some of the money for the ridiculos HS2 to upgrade and future-proof this section. As predictable as the cuckoo in spring, Dawlish has brought out the anti HS2 brigade. Nothing will be spent on building HS2 until 2018. Then £2 billion pounds each year will be spent , from a government budget of £700 billion- each year. A bargain for a rail line that could last for centuries. Dawlish should and will be rebuilt, but please find another bandwagon to jump on which will pay for it. |
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Post by revupminster on Feb 6, 2014 18:41:03 GMT
On the southwest news (sky 967) they have been cutting up the rails to work on the wall and base. They are going to spray concrete to stabalise the wall and hopefully prevent more damage in the coming storm at the weekend. Some people have been allowed to return to the homes behind the railway.
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Post by melikepie on Feb 6, 2014 23:29:04 GMT
I don't know whether to post this here or in the Melton thread. I have realised a potential problem with restoration as much of the Tamar line is very close to the Tamar estuary. Would something like this happen there?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 23:40:29 GMT
I don't know whether to post this here or in the Melton thread. I have realised a potential problem with restoration as much of the Tamar line is very close to the Tamar estuary. Would something like this happen there? Do you mean the section from Bere Alston to Plymouth, currently used by Gunnislake branch trains? If you do, I'm pretty sure I remember it being high above the Tamar estuary. |
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Post by arun on Feb 7, 2014 0:36:32 GMT
Quote - "There is a good road A38/A380 for replacement buses." The reason that road exists as a new dual carriageway is because it was rebuilt on the trackbed of the old inland diversion route between Exeter and Newton Abbot which used to run [until late '60s] through Longdown, Christow and Heathfield where it joined the line from Moretonhampstead to Newton Abbot!
Arun
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Post by melikepie on Feb 7, 2014 0:37:03 GMT
I was thinking around the industrial estate around west Plymouth but it is rather long since I've been there.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Feb 7, 2014 8:39:48 GMT
www.yourlocalweb.co.uk/devon/riverside/pictures/popup-4130367-tamar-road-bridge-and-gunnislake-branch-line/This is the LSWR line at the point it passes under the Saltash bridges - photo probably taken from Brunel's bridge - showing that it is set back a little way from the shoreline, and some way above it. Although a cliff fall could do for it, it is probably far enough up the estuary to avoid a pounding from the waves anything like as serious as what happened at Dawlish. (Note that the sections of the GW route on the Exe and Teign estuaries have suffered relatively little damage). although re-opening through to Exeter would be "nice to have" I can't see it happening until the GW route is beyond repair: - apart from the cost of restoring the route to main line standards, Torbay could only be served via Okehampton, Plymouth and Newton Abbott (reverse)!
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Post by trt on Feb 7, 2014 10:20:03 GMT
Use some of the money for the ridiculos HS2 to upgrade and future-proof this section. As predictable as the cuckoo in spring, Dawlish has brought out the anti HS2 brigade. Nothing will be spent on building HS2 until 2018. Then £2 billion pounds each year will be spent , from a government budget of £700 billion- each year. A bargain for a rail line that could last for centuries. Dawlish should and will be rebuilt, but please find another bandwagon to jump on which will pay for it. I don't think the country can afford HS2 anyway. It's not so much "Oh, we've found a pot of money, so let's use it for something else." More a case of "Yeah, let's not be stupid with cash we haven't got." I've not got the figures to hand, but I reckon if you took all the consultancy fees and survey costs etc. already spent on HS2, it'd pay for a new seafront and line at Dawlish easily. |
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Post by revupminster on Feb 7, 2014 10:35:55 GMT
Quote - "There is a good road A38/A380 for replacement buses." The reason that road exists as a new dual carriageway is because it was rebuilt on the trackbed of the old inland diversion route between Exeter and Newton Abbot which used to run [until late '60s] through Longdown, Christow and Heathfield where it joined the line from Moretonhampstead to Newton Abbot! Arun The A38/A380 were upgrades to existing roads by dualing and taking taking out the sharp bends. The hills are still there too steep for trains. The A380 to Newton Abbot was completed middle to late 80's. The Newton Abbot to Mortonhampstead closed in 1959 beyond Heathfield and the section between Bovey Tracey and Mortonhampstead was turned into a very straight single carriageway. The section to Exeter via Ashton was closed in 1958 leaving only a small spur from the main line near Exeter St Thomas. There is a small section of the A38 at Chudleigh that used the old railway. |
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Post by arun on Feb 7, 2014 12:08:07 GMT
Thank you for that Revupminster - Does that mean, in your opinion, that sufficient of the Heathfield to Exeter trackbed exists for it to be rebuilt as a railway?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2014 13:31:27 GMT
As predictable as the cuckoo in spring, Dawlish has brought out the anti HS2 brigade. Nothing will be spent on building HS2 until 2018. Then £2 billion pounds each year will be spent , from a government budget of £700 billion- each year. A bargain for a rail line that could last for centuries. Dawlish should and will be rebuilt, but please find another bandwagon to jump on which will pay for it. I don't think the country can afford HS2 anyway. It's not so much "Oh, we've found a pot of money, so let's use it for something else." More a case of "Yeah, let's not be stupid with cash we haven't got." I've not got the figures to hand, but I reckon if you took all the consultancy fees and survey costs etc. already spent on HS2, it'd pay for a new seafront and line at Dawlish easily. |
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