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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2014 1:28:53 GMT
Evening guys,
I've been wondering recently, why Underground and the mainline railway use different names for the two air pipes that run along a train? Also, on mainline stock like the Class 20s when they operate on the Underground, would the Brake pipe and Main res be designated as Trainline/Mainline?
Cheers
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 4, 2014 6:57:37 GMT
The terms "Main Line" and "Train Line" are American and were adopted when the tube lines and District were first electrified in 1903-7. Dunno about the Class 20s. Never worked on them.
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Post by revupminster on Jan 4, 2014 9:14:46 GMT
Not having been a guard or driver but having done the train equipment course (and the mysteries of the Triple Valve) in 60's I can remember main line was 85lb and was used to replenish train line at 65lb that was used for braking. On later trains the train line was replaced by an electric wire and the braking was done from the main reservoir. No idea how the trains stop now.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 2:55:34 GMT
The terms "Main Line" and "Train Line" are American and were adopted when the tube lines and District were first electrified in 1903-7. Dunno about the Class 20s. Never worked on them. Ah thank you, all makes sense now!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2014 2:57:24 GMT
Not having been a guard or driver but having done the train equipment course (and the mysteries of the Triple Valve) in 60's I can remember main line was 85lb and was used to replenish train line at 65lb that was used for braking. On later trains the train line was replaced by an electric wire and the braking was done from the main reservoir. No idea how the trains stop now. I believe all trains from the 73ts to the S stock still use the latter system you described, combined with rheostatic/regenerative braking.
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Post by fish7373 on Jan 8, 2014 10:22:00 GMT
HI 1973 T/STOCK brakeing sytem is the westinghouse west code brakeing fed from the main line pipe to the 7 step rely vavle, there is rheostatic brakeing as well but no regenerative brakeing on 1973 t/stock. FISH7373
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jan 10, 2014 9:36:25 GMT
Main reservoir pressure on the "big" railway is usually up to 120 psi/6bar. The brake pipe used to operate at 70psi but was changed in about 1977 to 72.5 psi to make BR air-braked rolling stock operate on the same brake line pressure as European railways of 4 bar.
This involved some problems during the change-over period, as a loco that could only produce 70 psi was not able to release the air brakes on a train that had previously been hauled by a modified loco! Several times my guard and station staff have had to walk down the train and pull all the brake release strings before the train could depart!
During the change-over period modified locos had a small orange sticker on the driver's desk to warn the driver the brake pressure had been modified.
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Post by tubeprune on Jan 11, 2014 7:48:57 GMT
Main reservoir pressure on the "big" railway is usually up to 120 psi/6bar. The brake pipe used to operate at 70psi but was changed in about 1977 to 72.5 psi to make BR air-braked rolling stock operate on the same brake line pressure as European railways of 4 bar. This involved some problems during the change-over period, as a loco that could only produce 70 psi was not able to release the air brakes on a train that had previously been hauled by a modified loco! Several times my guard and station staff have had to walk down the train and pull all the brake release strings before the train could depart! During the change-over period modified locos had a small orange sticker on the driver's desk to warn the driver the brake pressure had been modified. Same problem on steam railways when the GWR used a 25 inch vacuum release pressure while everyone else used 21 inch. You have to walk down the train and "pull the strings" when coupling up a loco to a train which had a GW loco on it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2014 16:32:38 GMT
Main reservoir pressure on the "big" railway is usually up to 120 psi/6bar. The brake pipe used to operate at 70psi but was changed in about 1977 to 72.5 psi to make BR air-braked rolling stock operate on the same brake line pressure as European railways of 4 bar. This involved some problems during the change-over period, as a loco that could only produce 70 psi was not able to release the air brakes on a train that had previously been hauled by a modified loco! Several times my guard and station staff have had to walk down the train and pull all the brake release strings before the train could depart! During the change-over period modified locos had a small orange sticker on the driver's desk to warn the driver the brake pressure had been modified. Same problem on steam railways when the GWR used a 25 inch vacuum release pressure while everyone else used 21 inch. You have to walk down the train and "pull the strings" when coupling up a loco to a train which had a GW loco on it. Yep, you can guess the job of the secondman and fireman at each station when we were top and tailing trains between North Weald and Ongar on the EOR, GWR Hall on one end and Class 31 or 37 on the other end!
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Jan 11, 2014 17:44:53 GMT
Was there not an accident on the big railway many moons ago, where this was a factor. I have a northbound train on the East Coast line in mind, but can't remember any more than that.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 14, 2014 11:27:35 GMT
Was there not an accident on the big railway many moons ago, where this was a factor. I have a northbound train on the East Coast line in mind, but can't remember any more than that. You may be thinking of the derailment at Grantham in 1906, in which the train, descite being scheduled to call, ran through the station at speed and derailed on the junction beyond (set for the Nottingham branch as "flank protection" for a train coming off the branch). There have been many theories for this, ranging from the driver being taken ill and the inexperienced fireman failing to realise where they were, or the crew fighting, but another theory, if I recall the details correctly from an article in The railway Magazine on the centenary of the accident, was that in order to speed up locomotive changes at Peterborough, the unofficial custom was to release the brakes on the train by "pulling the strings" and closing the pipe connection between the loco and the train before detaching the loco. On this occasion no-one re-opened the connection to the train's brake pipe when the new loco had been attached. The fireman on that loco was inexperienced and, having only previously worked on light engines and unfitted freights, he was not surprised by the speed at which vacuum was built up (as only the loco's own brakes were being evacuated). As the journey from Peterborough to Grantham is a simple up hill to Stoke Tunnel and down the other side, the driver discovered that the only brakes he had were those on the loco itself only when he reached his braking point on the approach to Grantham. (The small amount of leakage in the train brakes, through not being connected to the vacuum pump on the loco, would have made little difference to the outcome). Reports of the crew glimpsed apparently fighting on the footplate could in fact have been desperate attempts to get a few turns on the handbrake. No-one heard a whistle, which you would expect passing through the station whether on purpose or otherwise, again suggesting the crew were too busy.
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Post by trainopd78 on Jan 26, 2014 18:15:47 GMT
When driving the class 20's, we use the brake pipe/ main res national rail terminology. It just makes things simpler for us when coupling/ uncoupling and checking air connections etc and for when we are performing brake tests.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jan 27, 2014 10:10:34 GMT
On vacuum braked stock there is no cock to open or shut as there I on the air brake. Pipes are either connected or they're not. That is why on the back of a vac braked train the pipe is always put on the "dummy" to ensure the pipe isn't open to atmosphere.
There was an accident in about 1978 on the ECML involving a class 55 and express at Darlington which failed to slow down. This ended up on the Bishop Auckland branch, having gone through Darlington platform at speed and knocked a DMU out of the way. It turned out "something" had gone between the first and second coached and isolated the air brake, so we only had the loco and first coach providing the brake. I was the 2nd man who helped prep the loco at Kings Cross. It turned out the "something" was the traction motor cover off the loco. Luckily there were no fatalities on that occasion.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jan 27, 2014 13:04:10 GMT
On vacuum braked stock there is no cock to open or shut as there I on the air brake. Pipes are either connected or they're not. That is why on the back of a vac braked train the pipe is always put on the "dummy" to ensure the pipe isn't open to atmosphere. There was an accident in about 1978 on the ECML involving a class 55 and express at Darlington which failed to slow down. This ended up on the Bishop Auckland branch, having gone through Darlington platform at speed and knocked a DMU out of the way. It turned out "something" had gone between the first and second coached and isolated the air brake, so we only had the loco and first coach providing the brake. I was the 2nd man who helped prep the loco at Kings Cross. It turned out the "something" was the traction motor cover off the loco. Luckily there were no fatalities on that occasion. I think it's this one www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Darlington1977.pdfThe report suggests the likely cause as vandalism - an object (possibly an offcut from a rail) placed on the railhead which shattered on impact from the train -with bits knocking off the traction motor cover, disconnecting the brake pipes and knocking the brake isaolation valve into the closed postion. Despite the coillision with the dmu and the curve onto the Bishops Auckland branch the accident had no serious casualties. The parallels with Grantham seventy years before are uncanny although the initial trigger was rather different and the outcome far less severe.
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roythebus
Pleased to say the restoration of BEA coach MLL738 is as complete as it can be, now restoring MLL721
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Post by roythebus on Jan 28, 2014 17:57:40 GMT
Yep, that's the one!
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