Engineering Works Weekend of 21st and 22nd September

Not usually critical of LU but yesterday was a disaster for me. Checked on LU iPad app interactive tube msp before starting a journey from Edgwere to Epping to find that no engineering works were flagged which I thought was a bit strange. Only found when We boarded the train at Edgware that there was a bus replacement service between ChLk Farm and Euston and the again a big swath of the Central also suspended! We therefore abandoned our plans and went to Richmond instead

My gripe is that thinking back I nowremember that on Friday morning LBC 97.3 were repotting that the LU website was not updating. Well I have just checked the iPad app again and all services are good on LU again today!!! Come on LU you uses.ly do better than this either put a flash screen on the map informing people of issues with updates of just take it off line. If the system has been hacked I understand it might take some time to resolve however surely you have a communications continuity plan?

I hope that Boris throws his toys off his Barclays bike on this one.

I think that LU overall are the best at communication in the public transport sector in the UK by far as was demonstrates on the In train announcements yesterday however hopefully this issue will be a one off and the brilliant communications that LU. are renowned for will be restored in the very near future!

Nigel

Chingford service is every 15 minutes, taking just under half an hour to reach Liverpool Street, and about 10 minutes to reach the Victoria line at Walthamstow Central. 

Fair point Chris, but the point I was making was that the staff at Loughton were not directing Central London passengers onto the Chingford buses, but were shepherding everybody onto the Stratford one. Thw 20 bus seems to take an eternity to get from Loughton to Walthamstow, so I'm not sure how many would go for that option, although it's probably a perception issue that I think it takes so long!

What should have been happening is the staff at Loughton shouting out "passengers for Liverpootl Street and the West End board the Chingford bus."

Oh sorry, just to add we do not supply the staff in the blue tabards giving out the travel advice. These are arranged separately by London Underground and are contractors - not LUL staff.

As much as would like too, we cannot use the heritage stuff!

I remember that Power failure very well. We had a five day bus rally. I stood in the freezing cold at Woodford coordinating the buses. Three of us worked together (one from LUL Timetables and another from LBSL Area Ops) in putting a pattern of service together. Some of which has stood the test of time, as these alternatives keep cropping up.

As an aside - Did you get any photographs of that era? If you did, perhaps you might be able to e-mail me a few copies. I have a presentation to do on rail buses next month, and any anything from that era would be extremely useful.

Anyway returning to the plot - Like I say, it’s very difficult getting customers to use the alternatives as they seem to want to stick to line of route. Especially on single weekend operations. Confidence grows over time. But it does work. LUL had arranged ticket (and staff pass) acceptance on the Chingford – Liverpool Street line, plus Seven Kings to Liverpool Street. So a good opportunity to get some different mileage.

In the past to persuade customers to use the alternatives, when standing on the pavement (at places like Baker Street) we have called out the buses destination short of its real destination. For instance on the Met line jobs where a shuttle bus has been laid on to link Wembley with the Bakerloo line, we would shout out “NEASDEN”. That then encouraged customers to ask how they get to Wembley Park. At that point we could direct them to the Bakerloo. However my desire to use full size destination blinds often scuppered that as customers could see the real destination!

Anyway there was a small flurry of comments last night between LUL and myself about this weekend. This was a very big closure, and it’s difficult to get these closures 100% right. But LUL are aware of the feedback on this page. In addition bus operators, LUL station staff, the customer information assistants and the Closure Managers all feedback their views to LUL on a Monday morning. These thoughts are then considered for future closures.

So lastly on this job - Although the structure will remain intact. The message about the alternatives is going to be strengthened. See you out there next week maybe!

Dean

No, in fact its costs LUL to arrange for ticket acceptance on these lines. To my knowledge they make a block payment to the operator involved. That’s regardless of passenger numbers, as it very difficult to determine those numbers in advance.
Accepted that Travelcards would already be valid - but the actual arrangements are I believe based on anticipated additional traffic. I could find out.

You don't touch in or out when using Rail Replacements, they are free. I don't see why the buses ticket machine can't be set up to charge a flat rate for the use of the bus. Linked to what you said, I would imagine it would be more expensive for the casual user to go via National Rail e.g. Chingford or Ilford. Could that be a reason why more people prefer to use the buses.

Thank you for the information, Its nice to know the system works in a way that's fair.

I read that TfL insist replacement bus services must be fully accessible, even though the Tube services they are replacing may not be!

Customers should hold a ticket before boarding the rail replacement bus. Theoretically theres a penalty fare for not doing so. But as you say we have no means of checking tickets or Oyster passes. In fact drivers are instructed not to attempt to do so. The railway has so many different types of ticket, its near impossible to train our drivers to understand what is valid and what is not. And of course to check Oyster you would need a working Oyster reader on every bus. That could limit bus availability as every bus would need to be Oyster fitted.

About twenty years ago when the DLR closed the Beckton Branch, we had to issue £1 single tickets to those who wanted to purchase a ticket on the bus. On my Routemaster I did this using a genuine Gibson ticket machine! But this did mean that in places it was cheaper to buy a ticket on the bus rather than pay the proper fare between (say) Beckton and Blackwall. The availability of a cheap option might actually work against the rail operator, as customers could legitimately pay a greatly reduced fare if their journey was entirely by bus.

And this also creates an accounting nightmare. The operator would need to ensure the ticket machines (ETMs) could issue the correct fare and if they were operator owned ETMs then the railway might need to audit that the revenue you have declared is indeed that you collected. Theres also possibilities that busy drivers might ‘forget’ to issue the ticket….

If you were going to go down the lines of setting the TfL Oyster fitted ETMs to accept LUL enabled Oyster cards and act in essence as a railway station in their own right, that might be an even more complicated process. Not sure the TfL ETMs currently have the memory for the LUL and LOROL faretables. Also TfL ETMs know where they are though tracking on ibus. Without functioning Ibus the driver could set the station perhaps manually, but that means that he would need to be accurate in his use of the ETM and knowledge of the area. Sadly all too often drivers, for a good number of reasons - just drive and don’t really pay a great deal of attention to their locality. So this could lead to difficulties for the customer further on, if the ETM on boarding was set incorrectly.

If the passenger did purchase a paper ticket on the bus, this may need to be exchanged at an open ticket office, with the Clerk deducting the ticket value against that paid for onward travel. As obviously a bus ticket would not be accepted for onward rail travel.

On a safety issue you are putting your drivers at risk collecting revenue. Not all buses on rail have assault screens. About half of mine do not, none of Ensigns and very few from Arriva the Shires. It would also mean drivers need to carry change and then be protective of that revenue when on break or travelling back to depot. We work in some pretty grim areas with some difficult customers who might potentially see our drivers as soft target. LUL ticket offices are the best place to collect revenue as they are very secure and staff have safe egress. Our drivers do not have that luxury.

National rail overcome the problem by sending out RPI/RCI’s to issue roadside tickets, normally at safe but busy stations. Of course they can withdraw if things get hairy. On the Abbey Flyer they travel on the bus. I tried a similar idea on the far eastern reaches of the Central line in about 1995. But we needed two RPI’s per bus (they must work in pairs and there’s a risk of injury if the bus stops suddenly), so the idea was quickly ditched.

In more recent years some checks have been made in areas where it is perceived to be a problem, Unfortunately the most recent to my knowledge was sparked after a driver was assaulted following a dispute over a non-revenue related matter.

It’s a good idea, but very difficult to achieve. I am not saying it’s impossible. If the customer required it we would deliver, but there are lot of hurdles we will need to overcome.

Given that the possession starts at Bethanl Green, and the Bethanl Green reversing siding is before the eastbound platform:

1) What are the service levels for the closure?

2) How will trains be reversed at Bethnal Green?

3) Are all trains reversing at Bethnal Green, or are some reversing at Liverpool Street?