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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 18:02:21 GMT
I've been told that eastbound LO trains are now stopping some distance short of the previous stopping point at Gunnersbury. District Line trains continue to use the normal stopping point at the end of the platform by the stairs from the ticket hall. Does anyone know why LO have moved their stopping point? It's causing some confusion to passengers and congestion.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 20:44:16 GMT
No idea but it could be that the rules that apply to NR trains usually require the stopping mark to be positioned to allow a train to stand 20m behind a signal ('behind' meaning 'in front of it' in normal peoples terms!). Thats one possibility. However, usually where NR and Tube share platforms they generally share stopping marks too! Has anyone noticed anything similar at Kew for example? Are westbound affected??
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Post by bicbasher on Aug 9, 2013 22:58:29 GMT
It's worth adding that at Honor Oak Park, Class 378 trains stop further back on Platform 2 while Southern services stop at the top of the platform.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 23:04:47 GMT
Anything to do with differing train length (LO being shorter) and/or the position of the exit from the platform?
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Post by Chris M on Aug 9, 2013 23:45:25 GMT
With CCTV cameras carried on the train and/or a guard it should (in theory) be possible for a train to stop anywhere on a platform where the whole train is on the platform, the driver can see all the signals/repeaters they need to see and the train is correctly aligned with CDSE loops or equivalent. Other things being equal, they should stop at the point most convenient for passengers.
OPO/DOO trains using external equipment are tied to the position of that equipment.
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Post by redbond on Aug 10, 2013 7:11:58 GMT
It's worth adding that at Honor Oak Park, Class 378 trains stop further back on Platform 2 while Southern services stop at the top of the platform. Where Southern trains stop at Honor Oak Park is right on top of the signal. LOROL safety management didn't like that, so our car stop markers were set further back.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 12:45:05 GMT
Probably the same reason at Gunnersbury, where the District Line stop is right by the signal. It seems a bit daft for two parts of TfL to have different rules on this, but maybe it's because the District has tripcocks and LO doesn't.
Edit: Hang on, isn't an LO train protected by TPWS anyway?
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Post by dazz285 on Aug 10, 2013 15:22:59 GMT
The stop board has been moved in an attempt to stop drivers opening the doors on the wrong side as some were looking out of the left hand side of the train ie at the car park.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2013 18:15:21 GMT
That is an awful reason, and I hope it's not true. Why inconvenience passengers just because drivers are so inattentive that they can't see which side the platform is? Anyway, don't the guards open the doors on LO?
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Post by graeme186 on Aug 10, 2013 20:11:08 GMT
That is an awful reason, and I hope it's not true. Why inconvenience passengers just because drivers are so inattentive that they can't see which side the platform is? Anyway, don't the guards open the doors on LO? Drivers release the doors on Class 378s worked with a Guard. Guards close the doors.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 10:51:13 GMT
That is an awful reason, and I hope it's not true. Why inconvenience passengers just because drivers are so inattentive that they can't see which side the platform is? Anyway, don't the guards open the doors on LO? Why is that such an awful reason? TOC's have a responsibility to minimise risk - better passengers have to walk a bit further than experience increased risk of wrong side door release. You make it sound as though wrong side door releases are down to drivers being too casual. In fact it is very often down to a procedure becoming automated in the sense that repetitive behaviour coupled with additional factors (such as momentary distraction) cause an action to occur. I don't work this station, but stations with right hand side platforms are notorious for increasing risk. Drivers need to be in the mindset to focus all their attention on the right hand side at such platforms - if the car park (or anything else) is drawing their attention away from where they need to be looking then that increases the risk massively. Ultimately any wrong side release is a driver error, but you can guarantee that drivers will have various protection strategies in place to minimise risks and what the TOC's implement in terms of stop marks, reminders, etc goes some way to minimise that risk further. Risk minimisation is also behind any moves to bring stop markers further back behind signals regardless as to whether TPWS is fitted or not. It not only mitigates against TPWS activation and or potential overrun SPAD's but it also mitigates against SAS (starting against signal) SPAD's too. You could suggest that those scenarios would involve driver 'inattention' too, but if you take that line too strongly why introduce technology at all? Human factors is and always will be a part of the railway. No driver sets of to work to have an incident.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 11:20:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2013 12:31:53 GMT
As mentioned already the stopping point has been moved to prevent wrong side door opening where there have been 16 incidents of this taking place at this station alone since the introduction of class 378s on the North London Line. What was the figure when class 313s stopped there?
The Guards do not open the doors on these trains, the driver does. The Guards close them, and anyway in December it wont be a argument as the guards will be removed from the trains. People like me will probably be left to clean the drivers toilets.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2013 14:44:14 GMT
That is an awful reason, and I hope it's not true. Why inconvenience passengers just because drivers are so inattentive that they can't see which side the platform is? Anyway, don't the guards open the doors on LO? Absolutely right, small things like trains stopping in illogical positions just reinforces the general publics opinion that railways here are a joke. As others have said, the drivers open the doors on the 378's, that itself is another stupid and potentialy dangerous decision made when the 378's entered service.
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