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Post by southfieldschris on Jul 18, 2013 14:42:42 GMT
First off - this is NOT an attempt to resurrect the debate about including a forum area for Tramlink.
However....
Given that the Tramlink investment plan seems to involve providing a second platform for it at Wimbledon, I wonder if any forum member knows how this is supposed to be accomplished?
I accept that anything which is done is not going to affect the District Line bays on the north side of the station as Tramlink comes in on the south, but I'm really struggling to see how there is going to be room for a second tram platform. It's not as though there is space alongside either the west or eastern ends of the present Platform 10, so can't see a Clapham Junction/Overground solution working.
Genuinely puzzled, and interested if anyone has any info.
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Post by domh245 on Jul 18, 2013 14:53:43 GMT
I had read somewhere that they were considering re-routing the trams into the town centre, but to be honest, I doubt anything will be done yet, until Crossrail 2 (if it does go ahead) rolls into town at which point the whole station can be redone, although I think that it can't come soon enough!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 18, 2013 16:00:04 GMT
Apparently there is space for a Clapham Junction type layout and that is what is planned. Apparently in the last few days marks have appeared marking where changes will be made, but I've not seen pictures (and it's been a while since I was in Wimbledon).
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Post by southfieldschris on Jul 18, 2013 17:47:02 GMT
Apparently there is space for a Clapham Junction type layout and that is what is planned. Apparently in the last few days marks have appeared marking where changes will be made, but I've not seen pictures (and it's been a while since I was in Wimbledon). Thanks, Chris M, I was passing through Wimbledon today which is what put me in mind of it afterwards. Didn't notice any markings at the time, but tbh I was concentrating on not missing my connection. Will have a good look next time. Thanks again. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 18, 2013 18:48:29 GMT
I was waiting for a train on platform 9 a few days ago and pondering how it might be done. There certainly looks to be room for a second track between the existing one and the edge of the railway land (does anyone know if there was ever a siding there?), and there is also room under the bridge, but the existing track runs close to the middle of the available arch so you might need to slew the existing track over a bit to get the second track under the bridge, which would in turn require a bite to be taken out of what is already a very crowded part of the platform at the bottom of the bridge steps.
Better, but much more expensive, would be to put the tram station on street, and give Thameslink back its second platform - perhaps then we could have more than 2 tph? It would also remove the anomalous and confusing Oyster arrangements at Wimbledon caused by the trams being behind the barrier line
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Post by domh245 on Jul 18, 2013 19:04:14 GMT
Yes, I would agree that the current Oyster setup is very confusing, but then again a lot of people I've observed on the system have a bit of difficulty comprehending Oyster. They don't understand that tramlink oyster is a touch in and go, not a touch in and touch out system. I think that if the tramlink station was in a separate area (eg if they put both platforms under the bridge, allowing for better tramlink capacity, simultaneously allowing platform 10 to be used as a reversing platform for 8 car trains, as opposed to the 6 (?) car maximum it is at the moment) then the system might be easier to understand (ie a gateline that upon entrance charges for a single Tramlink journey, but when used as an exit starts a journey for (eg.) the district line. It could also have another exit down on the broadway, coming out near Morrisons or something- drags self away from RIPAS!)
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Post by crusty54 on Jul 19, 2013 12:08:42 GMT
Sutton Council are proposing an extension to a loop around their town centre.
This would involve a diversion away from Wimbledon Station itself and more stations in between.
TfL say they are looking at funding options.
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Post by southfieldschris on Jul 19, 2013 15:39:34 GMT
Sutton Council are proposing an extension to a loop around their town centre. This would involve a diversion away from Wimbledon Station itself and more stations in between. TfL say they are looking at funding options. You're going to get us into trouble for talking Tramlink, but in fact the Sutton proposal would involve a branch off the existing route to/from Wimbledon, not a diversion away from Wimbledon Station. BTW - I have been searching hard, when I should have been working, and I believe that there was once some siding provision to the south of the current running lines at Wimbledon in the vicinity of platform 10, but not in modern times. |
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Post by Deep Level on Jul 19, 2013 21:58:33 GMT
A suggestion that someone made to me was to build a new platform west of the current where three tracks can currently be found (2 running rails and a siding) where there is more than enough space for an island platform and then have a walkway from it to the main station where the track currently is.
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Post by southfieldschris on Jul 20, 2013 9:47:41 GMT
A suggestion that someone made to me was to build a new platform west of the current where three tracks can currently be found (2 running rails and a siding) where there is more than enough space for an island platform and then have a walkway from it to the main station where the track currently is. The historian in me would quite like that, despite the walk under the road bridge, as that would put the platforms on part of the site of the original 19th century Wimbledon station. |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Jul 20, 2013 11:42:50 GMT
The bay used by First Capital Connect trains on platform 10 is hardly used and is only long enough for 4 cars, so I think a platform should be built over that track and then a layout similar to what they have at Clapham Junction can be achieved. If not then what Deep Level said would be sufficient.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 22, 2013 11:49:44 GMT
I was waiting for a train on platform 9 a few days ago and pondering how it might be done. There certainly looks to be room for a second track between the existing one and the edge of the railway land (does anyone know if there was ever a siding there?), and there is also room under the bridge Looking at it again this morning, I'm fairly certain that there is indeed room for another track to the south of Platform 10, allowing a "Clapham Junction solution". However, I am also pretty sure that there is NOT room for two trams to pass each other under the bridge immediately to the west of the station. Since that bridge supports a raft carrying not only the road but part of the station buildings and the brand new Wimbledon Bridge House (aka the "Fridge on the Bridge"), I can't see it being modified any time soon. Thus there would need to be a single lead entrance to the two terminal plaforms, which would reduce the available capacity somewhat, although doubtless a faster throughput can be achieved as a tram could leave one platform as soon as another tram has arrived at the other. |
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Post by fleetline on Jul 22, 2013 13:01:48 GMT
The bay used by First Capital Connect trains on platform 10 is hardly used and is only long enough for 4 cars, so I think a platform should be built over that track and then a layout similar to what they have at Clapham Junction can be achieved. If not then what Deep Level said would be sufficient. Most FCC trains are 8 cars and the through platform is reversible. As from a few years time all services around the loop will be 8 car its not going to see much use so might as well use it for the popular Tramlink. |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 22, 2013 13:11:46 GMT
Looking at it again this morning, I'm fairly certain that there is indeed room for another track to the south of Platform 10, allowing a "Clapham Junction solution". However, I am also pretty sure that there is NOT room for two trams to pass each other under the bridge immediately to the west of the station. Since that bridge supports a raft carrying not only the road but part of the station buildings and the brand new Wimbledon Bridge House (aka the "Fridge on the Bridge"), I can't see it being modified any time soon. Thus there would need to be a single lead entrance to the two terminal plaforms, which would reduce the available capacity somewhat, although doubtless a faster throughput can be achieved as a tram could leave one platform as soon as another tram has arrived at the other. It needn't actually be single lead I don't think. You can do away with the need to wait for points to change (and the need to maintain points) by having two tracks but insufficient space for two trains to pass and signalling to enforce that. This is what they did at St Mary's Curve in the days of A stock running, and given that Tramlink already has at least one section of interlaced track the signalling system and safety case should be able to support it. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 22, 2013 16:44:36 GMT
Thus there would need to be a single lead entrance to the two terminal plaforms, . It needn't actually be single lead I don't think. You can do away with the need to wait for points to change (and the need to maintain points) by having two tracks but insufficient space for two trains to pass and signalling to enforce that. [/quote] But you need points anyway at a terminus of a double track line. I imnagine a track layout similar to that at Beckenham or New Addington (both of which have a single track approach to a two-platform terminus) would be used. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 22, 2013 20:16:23 GMT
The bay used by First Capital Connect trains on platform 10 is hardly used and is only long enough for 4 cars, . The other platforms at Wimbledon are quite long (easily enough for ten if not twelve) so I would expect even with a tram taking up part of platform 10 the remainder will still take eight. Noticed that a train was indicated for platform 10 on the departure screens when I passed through this evening (I gather there was a lot of disruption at London Bridge, so I guess this was a short working (but not necessarily a short train!). |
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Post by fleetline on Jul 25, 2013 14:19:08 GMT
The other platforms at Wimbledon are quite long (easily enough for ten if not twelve) so I would expect even with a tram taking up part of platform 10 the remainder will still take eight. Noticed that a train was indicated for platform 10 on the departure screens when I passed through this evening (I gather there was a lot of disruption at London Bridge, so I guess this was a short working (but not necessarily a short train!). Not it won't. The current bay platform is already four carriages long. The Thameslink platforms aren't long enough for 12 cars. The tram platform will completely replace the bay platform. There are four car workings by FCC around the Loop however some duties for Southern are done by is done by 377's so they can use the bay (using SDO) especially as they don't run longer than 6 car 377's any more around the Loop. |
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