LO to be completely DOO by July 2014

Had faith in Overground till now, why do so many companies see £££ over safety?

Do you feel less safe when you use the East London Line compared to your travels on the NLL? It was inevitable that this change would come about. I really don't give a thought as to whether a train has a guard or not given rail is a very safe mode of travel.

What will be interesting is if it comes to strike action who will blink first. The RMT threatened strike action over pay a few years back and it seemed (from the outside) that TfL and LOROL just crumpled in a heap and there was an inflation busting rise. You can rest assured Mr Crow hasn't forgotten that and, of course, the Overground carries far, far more people now than back then so any strike action will affect far more people.

I dont mean safety as in protection from undiserables. I mean the safe opening and closing of doors and in the unlikely event of a derailment or crash.

And actually I dont feel less safe but I feel a journey on the NLL has the human touch with helpful manual PA's and you feel much more looked after but a journey on the ELL just feels like it has no soul and if I was to look at it from a customer service aspect it feels like the company dont care.

They'll just add more 'recovery time' whilst increasing the use of LU style 'minutes to' to cover up publicly visible delays

Modern LU stock have onboard moniters in the cab that the driver observes whilst departing and on the mainline that would not be allowed as drivers are not allowed to be distracted by screens in the cab when moving. What if someone falls down the gap whilst the train is departing? A guard with head out of droplight window as train is departing could stop the incident or at least minimize injuries or death by sending an emergency stop signal via the bell or applying the emergency brake him/herself. The whole procedure could be speeded up by removing the need for the driver to reply back via the bell and if its possible to see the whole train/platform from the rear cab droplight they could even close the doors from that position.

I don't mean to be argumentative but on a 378 the conductor is meant to be in the train standing by the door when it's departing. They can't stick their head out the window as they shouldn't be in the cabs. And 378s have on board monitors in cabs just like the tube does.

Imo I would say guards should be in the rear cab or on a loco haul train in the guards compo.

Yeah but they turn off when the train starts moving

The only difference with the tube is that they stay on unit the train has left the platform. The 378s cameras switch off at above 4 mph and in my experience there is nothing unsafe about that.

Actually that is not strictly true. I helped design the method of operation on class 378s and caveats were put into the method of operation and nowhere does it say in the conditions of service 'That they shouldn't be in the cabs'. Neither does it say 'The conductor is meant to be in the train standing by the door when its departing'.

Conductors on Lorol and Silverlink have always stood by the door when leaving the platform, even after it was binned in 2001 I think. It was kept in place by both companies even before the latest changes to the rule book. There is a difference between expected and required. If it was stated that Conductors are required in the train for the complete journey and must not return to the rear cab, I am sure the Health and Safety executive would have something to say especially when some diagrams your expected to be on a unit for up to 5 hrs and 30 minutes without a break. All standing up, and in a moving train which in rush hours is often so full your leaving passengers behind, with out the facilities to have any liquid or food (not allowed to do this in front of the passenger mind). Hence why a caveart was put in to the agreement, otherwise I wouldn't of accepted this.

Anyway I don't why we are all getting a bit upset about this, in 5 months it wont be happening at all, all my equipment will be handed back and then promptly thrown away and vestiges of Guards on London Overground be removed and wiped out from the memory.

The decision and a perfectly timed one by Transport for London was always going to be we need the Guard for the Olympics, we need the Guard for the Olympics, what a wonderful customer service experience they brought to the passenger during that now a long time ago 8 week period, now the olympics has gone and the world has gone away, lets get rid of them because they cost too much, we aint got the world watching us anymore, they don't serve a Customer service function anymore let alone an operational one.

This whole thing is politically motivated.

What now in this world with the country in the state its in with employment is a 50 year old like me going to do, I left school with nothing, ive only ever worked in the rail industry, I don't drive, I am just computer literate. However I can push a broom, but even that requires qualifications now.

Good Evening Group members,
Well I have been very quiet of late regarding this issue, however the company managed at long last to get the Safety Case for the operation of DOO yesterday. London Overground have stated that DOO could come in early, although no official date has been given, it looks like to all intents and purposes that the date could well be the 18th of November. If that is the case then my very last day working trains will be later today. I start at 14:45. I am then on Annual Leave for a week. I have already handed back most of my equipment and my locker is now empty and the key handed back.

I have applied for work in South Wales, where a cut in wages down there would not affect my standard of living (like it would in London). Writing application forms out and doing it online has been very daunting, so much so I don't think I will successful in the process.

I have enjoyed my life (well most of it) working on the railway sadly though times change and needs must as they say. I have decided not to do the age old tradition of having a leaving do, instead I will go out of the industry in the same way I came in 'quietly and unobtrusively'.

Walking up those stairs at St Pancras to room 8A are now a long time ago. I never thought that when I went to that office as a young 16 year old on a balmy day in June 1980 where it would end up and the sort of career I would have.

good luck routemasterkeith and dont feel downhearted you must have some happy memories on the railways more so than sad ones. Its people like you that give the travelling public that extra little bit of service. You cant help but enjoy hearing a human voice over the PA rather than a DVA.

All the very best to you Keith. I hope it doesn't take too long to get yourself sorted.

Regards

Rich

Good luck Keith. Hope you stay a member on the forum.