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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2013 20:16:47 GMT
(Sorry if this isn't posted at the right board)
What if TfL skiped som of the words in their annoncements to make them shorter like:
- This is a(n) A Line train to Z
- The Next station is Z
- This is Z
- Change here for the B and C Lines and for D from Y
- Please Mind the gap between the train and the platform
A, B, C, D = Lines
Z, Y = Stations
We do it in Denmark with succes, what did you think?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jun 26, 2013 22:15:38 GMT
I think the idea of having a word or two at the start before the crucial part of the message is to give people chance to recognise that they need to start listening, which takes a second or so before they start taking in the information. This is the same reason why many tannoy announcements are preceded by a bing-bong or other couple of notes.
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Post by oe on Jun 27, 2013 6:46:23 GMT
The only announcement I think needs to be shorter is on the Jubilee line when we hear "This train now terminates here." Not sure if it is the stress on the word "Now" that grates me or the feeling that the "now" is superfluous unless the train was originally terminating somewhere else - which given that I hear it at Stanmore isn't possible!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 8:16:41 GMT
No thanks! It's all about customer service and polite announcements with all the 'extra' words add the human touch.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 8:19:14 GMT
This is the same reason why many tannoy announcements are preceded by a bing-bong or other couple of notes. We've a bing-bong-bong sound in Denmark |
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Post by peterc on Jun 27, 2013 8:42:40 GMT
It is essential to have some redundant words at the beginning as people don't hear the start of any announcement.
The last company that I worked for made it a rule that you always answered the phone with a standard introduction before giving your name. I thought it sounded dreadful but it worked, before I would give my name and the caller would then ask to speak to me!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2013 13:43:12 GMT
Don't the buses just say "[number] to [destination]"?
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Post by Chris M on Jun 27, 2013 15:27:46 GMT
It's more like "[number].......to...................[destination]" but there is indeed no preamble to the announcement. I've never been convinced though that this is a useful announcement, as by the time you hear it you're already on the bus and it's too late to change if its the wrong one.
There is also no preamble to the announcement of each stop, but I guess that if you need the announcement of the stop then you know to listen. Much longer and in many places there wouldn't be much pause for breath.
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Post by wattman on Jun 27, 2013 19:21:25 GMT
What's the benefit of skipping a few words? I don't understand.
Does the Danish system provide a better service because of that?
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Post by Jerome H on Jun 28, 2013 19:04:37 GMT
Full sentences make it sound like you've got a human speaking to you, not a computer.
EDIT: I can't spell...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2013 5:22:01 GMT
Piccadilly Line trains often have shortened announcements.. as they often fade in and lose the start altogether!  Hasn't anyone else noticed how often the "This is" actually says "sis Green Park" and, my favourite one which sounds like a question, "Is Leicester Square"? |
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Post by Alight on Aug 3, 2013 10:59:22 GMT
Karona - indeed I've noticed this! I still think the Piccadilly line announcements are the best on the system; Julie Berry's voice is warm yet still maintaining authority.
In terms of the DMI messages, I think they should all follow the same practice on the Jubilee line when stating where the train will terminate e.g. "Destination : West Hampstead"
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Post by southfieldschris on Aug 3, 2013 12:59:49 GMT
Pet peeves (to be fair, mostly from NR):
tautologies such as "arriving into" and "station stop" as in "we are now arriving into London Euston which is the next and final station stop".
the recorded announcement "this train is being held at a red signal" - do they honestly think that we think that trains just stop randomly for fun? It's more interesting to know why the signal is red, but that needs a human being to speak to us.
recorded "apologies" - if you can't be bothered to do anything to apologise except press a button to trigger a recorded announcement, I don't reckon you are genuinely sorry.
"alight here for Wimbledon Lawn Tennis Club" - have moaned about this on here before, but it drives me mad....it's The All England Club for short and the All England Lawn Tennis and Croquet Club in full. Wimbledon Lawn Tennis Club is a different club altogether, admittedly just opposite the one the announcement means, but still....
Love, Light and Peace.
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Post by v52gc on Aug 3, 2013 15:18:12 GMT
recorded "apologies" - if you can't be bothered to do anything to apologise except press a button to trigger a recorded announcement, I don't reckon you are genuinely sorry. I completely see where you're coming from on this, however, on the 73 stock there are a few recorded announcements giving a reason for the delay and an apology. I tend to use these as they come up on the displays inside the train so anybody who cannot or has not heard the announcement can read it on the displays as it scrolls across. People boarding the train later in the delay will also have the opportunity to read this. |
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Post by southfieldschris on Aug 3, 2013 17:37:29 GMT
recorded "apologies" - if you can't be bothered to do anything to apologise except press a button to trigger a recorded announcement, I don't reckon you are genuinely sorry. I completely see where you're coming from on this, however, on the 73 stock there are a few recorded announcements giving a reason for the delay and an apology. I tend to use these as they come up on the displays inside the train so anybody who cannot or has not heard the announcement can read it on the displays as it scrolls across. People boarding the train later in the delay will also have the opportunity to read this. Well, I hadn't thought of that - I withdraw my objection ! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2013 12:14:19 GMT
Don't the buses just say "[number] to [destination]"? They do (e.g. "ninetyfour ... to ... Piccadilly Circus"). But the most people look for a destation (and maybe a number) before boarding a bus. What's the benefit of skipping a few words? I don't understand. Does the Danish system provide a better service because of that? First of all: There's not a ding-dong sound at the metro in Copenhagen. There are a ding-dong sound in almost all our trains with automatic annoucements. And no, it doesn't make the Danish (train) system better. The point in my suggest was that there are stops every ½-2 minutes on most of the London Underground and that results in annoucements 50%-75% of the time! Full sentences make it sound like you've got a human speaking to you, not a computer. You've a point... |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 4, 2013 18:37:49 GMT
But the most people look for a destation (and maybe a number) before boarding a bus. Not if you've approached it from behind whilst its standing at the stop. I've often boarded a bus at Waterloo only to find, too late, that it's only going to the Aldwych and not to the City |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 9:39:28 GMT
But the most people look for a destation (and maybe a number) before boarding a bus. Not if you've approached it from behind whilst its standing at the stop. I've often boarded a bus at Waterloo only to find, too late, that it's only going to the Aldwych and not to the City You're right. The problem's (almost) solved with the New Bus for London. tNBfL has its route number behind. If you're a frequent traveller you know from which side of the road your bus departs from. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2013 11:55:58 GMT
Great points from SouthfieldsChris and v52gc! I still think the Piccadilly line announcements are the best on the system; Julie Berry's voice is warm yet still maintaining authority. Definitely - the perfect classy tone to welcome visitors to London. Crystal clear, yet not like those dated haughty/schoolteacher bellowed announcements which sound so out of place now. Some older station ones - lovely though they were for their time - literally sound posher than our own royal family these days! Pet peeve on Piccadilly would be the DVA construction & timing. When the announcement begins "please mind the gap between.." the doors have often already opened a couple of seconds earlier. Nobody thought to start that before the doors opened, then say it again as they have just opened? Some DVAs are still playing when door close beeps start eg. "...terminals one.. two.. three.. and five". How quickly are people with suitcases supposed to get in & out having heard that information? The common defence by staff is that the on-board screen shows such info during the journey, but it doesn't alternate continually between "next station" and "destination" - clearly it should. Instead it only scrolls to match the voice. Look at how many people hover inside & out of the Picc doors at Hammersmith at 22:25-22:30 waiting to hear if "The next station is... Turnham Green" or "The next station is... Acton Town" and then jump in/out. T/Ops will rightly say they know to wait for that part of the announcement to play out, but of course having waited we get the door beeps immediately after those words.. giving you about 5 seconds max to react. So I think as the train is halfway into the station the announcement should start "This is (station name)". (Then, where appropriate) "Please mind the gap as you leave the train" (the 'train/platform' bit is obvious!). *Then* the doors open. "Please mind the gap" (just that - it's obvious!). No need to say station name again. "Piccadilly Line to Heathrow Terminals 1,2,3 and 5". Then.. standardise the approach as quickly as possible! Going from line to line and hearing a different way of doing it is unhelpful. There was a mention of "bing bong" noise before announcements. Funnily enough the District Line only does this on the announcement when the doors are opening. It's so subtle that it's rendered pointless - your attention is drawn to the clear sound of opening doors and the bing bong is masked! Yet other announcements which come unexpectedly between stations are not introduced with a bing-bong noise, so it's totally the wrong way round! |
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Post by domh245 on Aug 5, 2013 12:26:38 GMT
Not if you've approached it from behind whilst its standing at the stop. I've often boarded a bus at Waterloo only to find, too late, that it's only going to the Aldwych and not to the City You're right. The problem's (almost) solved with the New Bus for London. tNBfL has its route number behind. If you're a frequent traveller you know from which side of the road your bus departs from. Unless I am mistaken, almost all buses in London have the route number displayed at the rear, although admittedly, it can be difficult to see at times. I think that the point norbitonflyer was trying to get at was that sometimes buses might be "turned short" so when he boards his bus at Waterloo, rather than going all the way through to the city, it is only going as far as Aldwych, before terminating, however this isn't really a problem, as then at least he is nearer to his destination, and could walk if it comes to the worst! |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 5, 2013 13:45:38 GMT
however this isn't really a problem, as then at least he is nearer to his destination, Yes it is a problem, because of two of my pet gripes against London Buses 1. the circuitous route taken by all buses between Waterloo and the City, which means at Aldwych I'm actually further from my destination than when I started. 2. the absence of transfer tickets, which means I'm going to have to pay again - and I'm hardly likely to walk - beacuse of "1" above, I only use the buses when it's raining - and given that most buses are full and standing on leaving Waterloo, the chances of actually being able to board one at Aldwych are quite slim. Real London buses had a destination blind at the back as well as the front. There are some places - Claygate on the K3 is one example, Kingston on the K5 another, where the road layout requires buses tarvelling to both ends of the route to travel along a stertech of road in the same direction, and even to use the same stop. |
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 5, 2013 22:06:46 GMT
It strikes me that the Aire and Wharf Valley electrics have got this pretty good.
Approach station
The next station is Saltaire
Doors open
Welcome to the Leeds Train
The next station is Shipley
Doors close, depart
Silence
Oh, and its all Phil Sayer too.
You could add in Mind The Gap, step etc... after the doors open.
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 6, 2013 10:10:57 GMT
2. the absence of transfer tickets, which means I'm going to have to pay again I have never had a problem obtaining a transfer ticket on a bus which has been turned back. I have noticed recently that rather than one transfer ticket being issued for a group of passengers, there is one for each passenger now. I assumed there was an obligation to provide one - I wouldn't leave the bus until issued with one. Back to topic, I still dislike the "good service" propaganda (especially when announced as you are sitting on a broken down train in the platform in soaring temperatures, but I digress). However, some stations (e.g. South Ken) manage to reduce this to "A good service is operating" - rather than "Ladies and gentlemen, service update from control at XXX, at present we have a good service on the Y line, a good service on the Z line, and a good service on all other lines, including London Overground, DLR, and the Stourbridge Town branch. There are no unplanned station closures." And the award for the most pointless announcement must surely be "Please ask a member of staff if you require assistance"!!! |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 6, 2013 10:26:45 GMT
2. the absence of transfer tickets, which means I'm going to have to pay again I have never had a problem obtaining a transfer ticket on a bus which has been turned back. But we are talking about a bus which is opreating a planned short working, and which is displaying the fact (but not displaying it to the unsuspecting traveller who hasn't seen the front of the bus because it was already at the stop when he emerged from the station entrance behind it) |
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Aug 6, 2013 11:46:37 GMT
@ norbitonflyer
Regularly, the 111 through Hanworth displays "Kingston"
At Hampton, the driver often changes it to Hampton Court, then turns everyone off when the bus arrives there. Most saw Kingston on the front when they got on, it was NOT displaying 'Hampton Court'. Getting a transfer ticket is not easy and it is sometimes refused. Passengers often have to pay twice, and I understand this happens regularly on the 267 too when buses displaying 'Hammersmith' are turned at Brentford. My stepson was refused a transfer ticket there (and he had no more money on his Oystercard), after the driver had got out of the bus and was on the pavement, having a ciggy.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 6, 2013 13:11:39 GMT
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Aug 6, 2013 13:59:11 GMT
@ norbitonflyer
My wife was on that bus when the accident occurred, and she was in the window seat by the BMW's kerbside front wheel
She saw the car coming towards the bus.
It is alleged that the driver has diplomatic immunity and the police are not prosecuting. The cyclist was lucky to survive and has what will be lifelong injuries
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 6, 2013 21:49:06 GMT
I have never had a problem obtaining a transfer ticket on a bus which has been turned back. But we are talking about a bus which is opreating a planned short working, and which is displaying the fact (but not displaying it to the unsuspecting traveller who hasn't seen the front of the bus because it was already at the stop when he emerged from the station entrance behind it) I suppose there may be a difference if a bus is already displaying a part-route destination when the passenger boards, as opposed to one which is turned back after he boards. @ norbitonflyer Regularly, the 111 through Hanworth displays "Kingston" At Hampton, the driver often changes it to Hampton Court, then turns everyone off when the bus arrives there. Most saw Kingston on the front when they got on, it was NOT displaying 'Hampton Court'. Getting a transfer ticket is not easy and it is sometimes refused. Passengers often have to pay twice, and I understand this happens regularly on the 267 too when buses displaying 'Hammersmith' are turned at Brentford. My stepson was refused a transfer ticket there (and he had no more money on his Oystercard), after the driver had got out of the bus and was on the pavement, having a ciggy. What would happen to a passenger who remained on the bus and refused to leave until given the transfer ticket to which he is entitled? Presumably the driver would ring up his control room, who would tell him that he must issue one if he is turning short? I suppose Oyster is more complex as there's nothing on paper, but a paper ticket should show the destination to which the passenger has paid (yes, in London this would always be the end of the service) and, should a driver or inspector wish to be arsey, the details thereon (specifically trip number and block number) could be used to verify that the bus he was on was turned back. A similar scenario occurs when buses are changed over during the day - i.e. the driver, passengers and block number move from bus A to bus B. A passenger who moves to the new bus then has an Oyster card which was not touched in on that bus, as he touched in on the previous bus, and there was no transfer ticket as everybody, including the driver, transferred. I have seen this occur at a stop and the bus move down two stops and have the drivers swap over. Hopefully any subsequent check by an inspector would quickly realise what has happened. A manager at Lothian RT explained it to me quite simply on the subject of transfers and part-routes - "we're messing people around anyway by getting them to change buses or wait for the next one. We shouldn't then antagonise them by being arsey about tickets". |
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Post by Chris M on Aug 6, 2013 22:03:48 GMT
I suppose there may be a difference if a bus is already displaying a part-route destination when the passenger boards, as opposed to one which is turned back after he boards. In London at least there is. Transfer tickets are available only to those people who boarded the bus before the blind was changed to indicate that it was not running the full length of the route. |
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