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Post by redbond on Feb 2, 2013 0:26:56 GMT
I'm not sure of the exact reasoning but drivers have been instructed to not wait for booked time but go once station duties are complete and we have a clear signal. This is just on the "core route" section north of Surrey Quays.
This excludes the last trains in each direction. We still have to wait for booked time at New Cross Gate and Queens Road Peckham.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2013 18:22:56 GMT
The instruction was as a result from a recent driver forum. The idea is that by not 'dwelling' at stations and keeping trains moving there should ideally be a sufficient gap between trains so as not to cause a 'bottleneck' in the core section. Provided everything keeps moving, you should get clear signals throughout the section.
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Post by melikepie on Feb 2, 2013 23:43:51 GMT
I don't think that is going to be helpful to us passengers. What about those who are trying to get on last-minute (excuse the pun)?
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Post by redbond on Feb 3, 2013 1:39:40 GMT
I haven't noticed any benefit to be honest, and I see more yellows heading south from Highbury than before this was introduced. I've also seen a few complaints on twitter about early trains departing, as most frequent commuters know the times now.
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Post by redbond on Feb 3, 2013 1:41:05 GMT
Also we get stopped at Canal Junction on a red if we're a Croydon or Palace service, as the automatic route setting is done to timetable, not what train is approaching.
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Post by bicbasher on Feb 3, 2013 15:55:25 GMT
I thought that we didn't wait at Canada Water on Friday when I went home on a CP service.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2013 17:58:19 GMT
I haven't noticed any benefit to be honest, and I see more yellows heading south from Highbury than before this was introduced. I've also seen a few complaints on twitter about early trains departing, as most frequent commuters know the times now. Really? I've had clear signals throughout the whole section since this instruction. The only time I've been held is if following a late departure from Dalston Jct due to driver changeover. Another factor which has helped is that I don't use more than power notch 3 when driving so not gaining full acceleration between stations which may result in 'chasing' cautionary aspects. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 13:34:33 GMT
Ah that explains why I keep missing my train home by about 15 seconds when I arrive at the platform about a minute before the time published to the public in the timetable. I then have to wait 15 minutes so I miss my connection at Peckham Rye and get home half an hour later than I would have done if the train had left at the published time
Oh well as long as the drivers are happy then never mind about the travelling public.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2013 14:29:37 GMT
Whilst i dont agree with the policy, it is hardly the drivers fault if they are given such instructions.
As an employee of said company you would think that we dont have timetables or diagrams to work to as so often your asked to leave early, run fast, terminate next station amongst other things.
Have you also noticed another annoying thing, the changes to the CIS screens on the platforms where it is done in countdown time, the problem with this is is that it often says next train in 2 minutes when you are already in the platform and your late. The amount of abuse you get because you havent waited for the satalite to catch up with you. People think you have actually left early.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 0:05:44 GMT
What a silly policy!
I don't agree with the countdown CIS boards either, as a passenger you cannot tell if a train is late or on time unless you know the times for the trains.
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Post by causton on Feb 19, 2013 2:05:00 GMT
What a silly policy! I don't agree with the countdown CIS boards either, as a passenger you cannot tell if a train is late or on time unless you know the times for the trains. I think LO would rather they had it that way  I like the way the north end of the Bakerloo line does it (at some stations, it's a real mix up there) 1 10:30 Watford Junction - 2 mins 2 Harrow & Wealdstone - 5 mins 3 Harrow & Wealdstone - 12 mins -------10:32:10--------- That way you know that which train is approaching, and can work out it is 4 minutes late! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 8:34:57 GMT
I can see there is an argument for this policy in the Northbound direction with a frequent service all serving the same stations as far as Dalston Jn and where by and large it doesn't matter what train you get and there is one every few minutes. Southbound with disparate destinations is a different matter though imo.
I leave work at 1600 and it is touch and go if I can get to Canada Water to catch the 1608 to CLJ. The WTT shows the booked departure time at 1608:30. I accept if I get there after 1607:30 then it will be pot luck and I can't expect to catch it but twice I have got there before 16:06:45 and missed it. I just think that is unreasonable when the departure times are published and made freely available to the public (unlike say on most parts of the tube)
Just to add insult to injury when the train leaves early then it often waits for time at Surrey Quays.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 8:36:50 GMT
What a silly policy! I don't agree with the countdown CIS boards either, as a passenger you cannot tell if a train is late or on time unless you know the times for the trains. I think LO would rather they had it that way I like the way the north end of the Bakerloo line does it (at some stations, it's a real mix up there) 1 10:30 Watford Junction - 2 mins 2 Harrow & Wealdstone - 5 mins 3 Harrow & Wealdstone - 12 mins -------10:32:10--------- That way you know that which train is approaching, and can work out it is 4 minutes late! I see haha  Yeah it is a right mess up the DC lines! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 17:26:21 GMT
I complained to LO about the early departures on the ELL and have just received a response which amongst the usual apologies etc contained the following:
"There was a miscommunication to drivers which may have led to some trains leaving one or two minutes early from stations between Dalston Junction and Surrey Quays. This has now been rectified and the drivers have now been re-briefed"
I am not convinced however as the 1608 left Canada Water early again this afternoon.
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Post by redbond on Feb 19, 2013 19:04:18 GMT
We've had no further notices about. Definitely not redacting the initial notice for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2013 16:45:56 GMT
We've had no further notices about. Definitely not redacting the initial notice for sure. Sounds about right! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2013 19:19:10 GMT
We've had no further notices about. Definitely not redacting the initial notice for sure. Sounds about right! We've now been given a revised notice and this instruction now only applies in the Up Direction (i.e. towards Highbury). All trains travelling in the Down direction (from Highbury) should be running to booked times. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2013 8:12:53 GMT
Ah thank you for that update.
Imo that is a much more sensible arrangement.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2013 15:49:19 GMT
A Imo that is a much more sensible arrangement. Much better. At the weekend some drivers were arriving at New Cross Gate 5-6 mins early because there were clear runs through with the Clapham branch not operational, but this would have led to 10 minute gaps. A bit of common sense might have come into play but then you can't blame drivers for following instructions I guess. The new arrangement is much more logical. |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2013 18:45:35 GMT
I am afraid to report that 9N06 (06.14 ex H&I) this morning ran between 4 and 5 mins early between Peckham Rye and Clapham Jn (or the approach to Clapham) as we still had to wait for the 9M08 (06.59 ex Clapham) to leave.
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Post by redbond on May 19, 2013 5:09:33 GMT
Nearly all the trains have to wait at the signal before Clapham Junction for the preceding train to depart. On the Saturday diagram, 9M08 is stabled overnight in the Middle Sidings and is timetabled to leave the sidings at 0658, arrive at P2 at 0659 and depart Clapham Junction at 0700. It then would've taken two to three minutes to get past the next signal to allow your train in.
The 'ignoring timetable' is only done north of Surrey Quays. Everywhere else is to timetable.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2013 7:22:50 GMT
Since the instruction was changed to apply N/B only, my experience is that S/B trains generally leave on or about the publically advertised times (albeit generally early against the WTT). Very occasionally there are still early departures from ZCW but these tend to be no more than about 10 - 15 sec ahead of the advertised time when they do occur. This contrasts with the 2mins plus which was happening regularly when the instruction first came in.
Personally I've not experienced any early running between PMR and CLJ. On the contrary in fact, the trains I see tend to be 1-2 mins late over this section especially eastbound.
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