Why was Thameslink taken off tube maps?

interesting point.

It was added because you could travel on it with a tube ticket in Central London. Probably removed because the map got too complex with London Overground and DLR.

There is a London area map at stations with all zones

There was a time, not long ago, when Oyster was not valid on Thameslink, even for stations in Zone 1; I wonder if this is part of the reason?

It didn't. All BR lines were removed at one point, and only some came back later. Concurrent with the Thameslink disappearance I *think* was the NCL being removed.

Max Roberts had a comprehensive collection online almost year by year, but this has now sadly been taken off. It was most informative, especially for the hard-to-get 80's maps.

It's called the 'London Rail and Tube services map', but they're surprisingly hard to get.

I have done what class413 suggested and saved it. I must admit that although I was born in London and lived there for 34 years I never really grasped the complexity of mainline line rail services in and around London, particularly south of the river. As a matter of interest are there any other cities with such a comprehensive heavy rail network.

www.jreast.co.jp/e/info/map_a4ol.pdf Tokyo?

I think it is important to keep the UndegrounD map for TFL services only, otherwise it becomes too cluttered for passengers just using it for the tube in central London.

A lot of UndergrounD stations display both an UndergrounD and outer London map which I think is a good solution.

XF

Goodness me - this is like deja vu from a recent debate on London Reconnections.

There isn't an easy answer that maintains map clarity but which provides an appropriate (whatever that means) level of detail. Some people struggle with the existing tube map and maps generally. I think it is a delicate balancing act as to how the tube and rail system

I think that come 2019 both Thameslink and Crossrail will be added to the tube map. I do not think that the full geographic scope of both services will appear on the map.

The other short term improvement would be to make the Oyster rail services map much more widely available - ideally alongside the tube map at LU stations. I think this would vastly improve the understanding of the rail network overall and also where Oyster is valid.

Yes I see you point to a degree however with an ever increasing system it becomes more difficult to make a map usable. Having worked on some User Experience (UX) projects the key key consideration is to provide human interfaces that do not make the user have to think. i.e. intuitive.
Beck's map was a good example of this, however now think of a system that has 10 times as many stations and 10 more lines more, colours, smaller text etc and longer for the human brain to take it in.

Traditional maps may be on their way out as we move to more hand held digital devices. Today I can enter 2 stations anywhere on the UK or even Europe and get a detailed route with options and interchange points all detailed - how good is that?

My final thought - it is a good thing that the Dinosaurs became extinct because Tube trains are not big enough to carry many of their species.

XF

Now we have a logical point, (from brigham). The travelling pax don't give a monkey's WHO operates the trains. They do care that they run and according to timetable, whatever colour the train is or the line on the map they are on is painted this month.

If some people are too stupid to understand a map, why do maps have to be "dumbed down" for them, and thus the inconvenience of others??

On the contrary, the section of Thameslink between Kings Cross and Farringdon (and on to Moorgate) was built by the Metropolitan and operated by it and the LPTB until the Bedpan elkectrification project started in the late '70s Indeed a recent thread suggests that TfL still owns it, NR simply leasing it from them

Yes; you're right, I was thinking it was all LCDR built (well the north-south bit). Naturally, the Moorgate branch of the CWL was Met.

The map as we know it will become obsolete as everyone will have a tablet can be used at any time and any location

Anyway enjoy the paper maps whilst you can!

XS

Sorry to pi$$ on your picnic, but being an innocent, naive ba5tard that l am, l was (until l saw this one), under the genuine impression that maps were designed with the primary purpose of being helpful. This one is a joke and seems to be a product of having too many coloured crayons and too much time to waste.

This "massingbird map" shows the only available route Richmond - Clapham Junction is via a change at Willesden Junc, and Clapham Junc - Wimbledon is only achieved via a change at West Brompton. Putney does not exist as it is not important enough, but Taplow, Wivelsfield and Hassocks evidently are important enough to be included with Brighton, which is not served from Victoria but from Blackfriars & Elephant and Castle!!!

How does this map help??

Let us not lose focus of what any new map is setting out to do. The map designer either includes NR lines or not, not the selected few that are decided on upon a whim. A map is meant to assist. This one is particularly unhelpful if key lines are omitted. This would cause so much confusion to visitors that it ought to be quietly modified for accuracy, or abandoned altogether.