Suicide prevention barriers

You would think that TfL would plan ahead for when the new picc stock is introduced.

Well they must know that when the new stock comes out they would want it have the capability to open these doors, that is what I am saying.

That is true. Also they are very expensive to install meaning they are probably not seen as a major priority, LUL not having any plans to install them anywhere else on the network. The main reason for PEDs is not actually for preventing people from falling on the track but for air flow reasons with the high speeds from the trains. They are also quite heavy meaning a lot of platforms would have to be rebuilt to support the weight of the PEDs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Jubilee Line platforms at Westminster are curved? They have PEDs fitted.

Anyway, if PEDs were fitted at Heathrow T5 you would have to equip the 73TS with a new system for determining whether it had stopped in the right place for the doors to be allowed to open. The business case for doing it just for one station probably wouldn't stand up.

Regards,

Dan

I was at London Bridge when the 1938 stock came through. Only the first two sets of doors were aligned. Everything became misaligned after that.

Correct - the JLE PEDs are there to prevent the pressure pulse from knocking people over on the platforms. Given the speeds at which trains travel on the extension I think this was a wise move.

Regards,

Dan

I have been doing some research, the PED's were designed for airflow restriction as well as to prevcent suicide as I thought.

They will also be used on Crossrail as well.

Not true.

The Paris Metro's retro installing PEDs on curved platforms in preparation for their driverless trains.



www.therailengineer.com/2012/02/28/paris-metro-line-1-a-new-beginning/

Westminster JLE platforms are slightly curved so you can install them in curved platforms.
You can retrofit platform screen doors in old stations, but those are expensive. Many metros like Paris use half-heights or automatic platform gates which are cheaper. But it has a lesser effect on preventing suicide because there is still a possibility that someone may jump over the APGs.

Oh for flip sake we had this debate last year or the year before. "Slightly curved" is ok, when you have a curve as severe as Bank Central Line you end up with a gap between the PEDs and the train where it would be possible for a passenger to get trapped between the two. I believe someone on here said they have a station with that problem in Singapore or Hong Kong and surprise, surprise it had a fatality for exactly that reason.

For total deja vu someone will now ask why we don't straighten all the platforms.......

I've some experience on these things too. As a driver I had a one under, and I've dealt with three or four each year for the past twenty plus years - four so far in 2012.

From my experience, the French PEDs would have prevented 90/95% of those incidents.

Looking at that picture of the Metro there seems to be a large gap between the PEDs and the platform edge, certainly very unlike the ones on the JLE.

As stated elsewhere the PEDs aren't primarily there to prevent one unders, if they were then they'd have installed them at Stratford, West Ham and Canning Town. They do help keep the dust off the platforms and the rubbish off the track. Plus there's no worries about overcrowded platforms.

That only works if they can get a change to the minimum staffing levels set for Section 12 stations which if memory serves is estimated as how many people it would take to clear passengers out of the station in 5 minutes. The week before last we had Oxford Circus closed until around 6:30am one morning due to lack of staff.

They'll argue that with CCTV they can do it all from the Control Room but if the tourists on the platform don't understand English too well then shouting at them over the PA isn't going to move them. For that matter when I was on stations and we had to evac some of the English-speakers were unwilling to leave and needed a physical presence to get them moving.

With the JLE it was simple installing PED doors as there was no service running when they were fitted. It would be interested to know how they installed the half-height gates on the Metro; did they shut down at weekends, close stations, etc. Then again as the DfT is cutting TfL's subsidy and they're focused on bringing in the EVOs I doubt if this is even being considered at the moment.

Is it not the case that many stations actually operate with more than the section 12 minimum staffing; extras are employed to cope with the crowds during the peaks. The section 12 stuff is relating only to evacuation, not preventing/monitoring crush during normal operation.