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Post by madandy on Aug 31, 2012 5:26:34 GMT
Occasionally I do this journey. Go to Green Park on crowded train and change to another crowded train. Hot tunnels and all zones travelcard.
No, I go via Wembley Park, Rayners Lane and acton town which is actually quite a pleasant ride and does not go into Zone 1 despite the negligible few minutes and three changes which are together not much more hassle than changing at Green Park..
However, LU publicity I notice insists on routing one through the crowded centre even if one starts at Neasden. From Wembley park it is via Rayners Lane.
There is however on little quirk. On an Oyster Card or Travelcard it still charges for zone 1.
To counter this when I change at Rayners lane I go up the stairs from one platform, through the ticket barrier then back in through the other one and down to the other platform.
Are there other quirks like this where you can save money and/or have a better journey by not doing what the label instructs?
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Post by v52gc on Aug 31, 2012 5:59:18 GMT
Have you tried touching the pink oyster readers on the platform at Rayners? I've never used them myself but surely this should be enough to tell the Super Oyster Master Computer you haven't gone through Z1.
Does it work with season tickets preventing a zone extension payment being taken out of the payg balance? Once again I do not know, but it should!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 8:27:19 GMT
Try Uxbridge and then catch the 724 bus which is express between Uxbridge and Heathrow Central bus station.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 31, 2012 8:42:14 GMT
Try Uxbridge and then catch the 724 bus which is express between Uxbridge and Heathrow Central bus station. The problem is the 14min extra running time to Uxbridge and the 724 is only hourly (M-Sat) 2hourly (SUN). |
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Post by metrailway on Aug 31, 2012 9:15:40 GMT
You could go to Harrow and then take the 140 bus from the bus station. If you don't mind a walk in Acton you could take the 266 from Willesden to Acton and then walk (or take E3) to Acton Town tube for the Pic. 297 from Neasden to Ealing Broadway and then tube is another option. I doubt you'll get any cost savings though.
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Post by madandy on Aug 31, 2012 11:03:58 GMT
My last such trip predated the pink lobster card readers.
All these bus alternatives if they are better, suggest that TFL DO offer the wrong advice.
One of two more I frequently do which is usually more likely to be quicker from up the Jubilee Line is to change at Baker Street and Oxford Circus to go to Victoria. I have raced it with someone else who changed at Green Park. Another is going between my home and the East of Mile End where If there is a imminent eastbound Aldgate train coming at Finchley Road or an imminent Westbound Hammersmith train at Mile End a smart change can make a difference.
Another one I discovered was going to Shortlands (short of Bromley) on Sundays where it was not unusual to merely see the back of the departing train after the long crowded walk to the mainline station and finding the right platform. Realising the train always stopped at Brixton at one platform only I soon learned to continue down to there and nip round the corner in far less time.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 31, 2012 11:25:34 GMT
The 140 from Harrow to Heathrow is pretty much its entire route though, thats a long journey and a busy one at times. And certainly not one to sit at the back of the bus for...
The 222 goes from Uxb, but only to Heathrow North on the Bath Road...
What about (as suggested before) the 266, but to Acton Mainline, then Heathrow Connect?
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Post by superteacher on Aug 31, 2012 12:01:44 GMT
The problem with the TFL journey planner is that it's not intelligent - it's a computer program, and therefore runs by some algorithm and its associated criteria.
I daresay that there is a criteria to minimise the number of changes, weighed against the journey time.
As you do not really save much time by going via Rayners Lane and Wembley Park, it will route you via Green Park, which is only one change.
As much as you may like travelling via a pleasant route (and I would agree with you on this), the average passenger want to get from A to B in the quickest possible time with the least amount of hassle. And if people have luggage etc, three changes really isn't very desirabl, particulatly at Acton Town and Rayners where you have to cross the platform from EB to WB, then WB to EB.
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Post by metrailway on Aug 31, 2012 14:58:51 GMT
Yeah the 140 is very slow. 297 isn't great as well - about 45 mins to Ealing Broadway. I didn't suggest Acton Main Line as I think you can't use Oyster on Heathrow services. When I have done Heathrow - Willesden journeys I have used the 266 and Acton Town. 266 is relatively quick as well (~ 30 mins) to reach Acton. Journey planner says 52 mins...  10 minute walk down Gunnersbury Lane to Acton Town and there are lifts at the station so it isn't too bad if you have luggage. It might even be faster than going via Rayners Lane or Green Park! |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 31, 2012 21:10:59 GMT
should be enough to tell the Super Oyster Master Computer you haven't gone through Z1. Does it work with season tickets preventing a zone extension payment being taken out of the payg balance? Once again I do not know, but it should! As far as I understand it, the Oyster readers just open the gates if they recognise a travelcard valid in their zone - they don't record where you went - for example they don't record an incomplete journey if you fail to touch out. So you only get charged if you touch in or out when you are out of zone. |
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Post by Chris M on Sept 2, 2012 0:08:43 GMT
I daresay that there is a criteria to minimise the number of changes, weighed against the journey time. Whatever the criteria is (and it must surely exist) it isn't as simple as "fewer changes = better", judging by the number of times it suggests things like catching a bus for 1 minute to arrive a fraction sooner, even if the typical wait between buses is longer than the time saved. I've even seen it suggest getting the tube to a station, walking for 4 minutes directly away from my destination and then getting a bus for 1 minute, followed by a 1 minute walk back towards the station. This was to avoid a 7 minute walk direct from the station. |
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Post by superteacher on Sept 2, 2012 10:22:16 GMT
I daresay that there is a criteria to minimise the number of changes, weighed against the journey time. Whatever the criteria is (and it must surely exist) it isn't as simple as "fewer changes = better", judging by the number of times it suggests things like catching a bus for 1 minute to arrive a fraction sooner, even if the typical wait between buses is longer than the time saved. I've even seen it suggest getting the tube to a station, walking for 4 minutes directly away from my destination and then getting a bus for 1 minute, followed by a 1 minute walk back towards the station. This was to avoid a 7 minute walk direct from the station. I wasn't sugesting that minimal changes was the only criteria, because there are many more. However, when the times of different journey options are similar, then the minimum number of changed will certainly be a big factor in the decision process. If, for example, a journey with one change took 60 mins while an alternative journey to the same destination with two changes took 45 mins, I suspect that the number of changes would be overridden. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2012 16:33:30 GMT
Another option using OSIs would be:
Heathrow - Acton Town - Chiswick Park - Gunnersbury - Brondesbury - Kilburn - Willesden Green.
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Post by grahamhewett on Sept 3, 2012 17:24:42 GMT
Now, if only Acton Town - S Acton was still available...
GH
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 3, 2012 17:53:20 GMT
How true indeed! I often muse whether Acton Town as a southern terminal of the NLL would be popular. I suspect highly so.
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Post by superteacher on Sept 3, 2012 19:24:23 GMT
How true indeed! I often muse whether Acton Town as a southern terminal of the NLL would be popular. I suspect highly so. Connection for Heathrow trains - definitely! |
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Sept 3, 2012 19:46:45 GMT
The Acton Town - South Acton chord was closed in an age when (1) railways were only ever going to close, not open, and (2) LT were not even intending to extend the Picc from Hounslow West to Thiefrow if they could avoid it. (Easier to build the "West London Air Terminal" and stick more coaches on the A4)
Many things would be different today, but don't start me off again about planners who only ever failed to plan. We are lucky to have any railways left.
One of the biggest problems today is caused by the lack of infrastructure that was ripped up a.s.a.p., if there was any possibility of a line re-opening. People are too wise to that sort of things these days. The foresight was nil re the South Acton shuttle, There was more chance of the Broad Street to Richmond Line (as it then was) closing altogether than having some through services diverted to Acton Town via it. You have to have lived through the first 20 years after 1945 regarding transport "policy" to realise how negative it was and how it was 100% designed for appeasement of the road lobbyists who effectively dictated to government.
Am l right in thinking that once upon a time, S Acton services actually ran direct as far as Hounslow??
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Post by ruislip on Sept 3, 2012 21:54:39 GMT
Am l right in thinking that once upon a time, S Acton services actually ran direct as far as Hounslow?? There, and sometimes to South Harrow & Uxbridge from what I remember. |
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Sept 3, 2012 22:04:10 GMT
I can't imagine it would be an especially expensive one to rebuild though, but off topic.
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Post by grahamhewett on Sept 3, 2012 22:41:02 GMT
@ben - isn't there a housing development in the way of reinstating the curve these days?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Sept 3, 2012 23:55:46 GMT
  How embarassing, yes I just looked now. Having not looked at an aerial view for a few years its clear things have changed, and I must have mis-remembered other things aswell. Apologies, the alignments and gradients look to be almost impossible now.
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Post by andypurk on Sept 4, 2012 8:39:12 GMT
should be enough to tell the Super Oyster Master Computer you haven't gone through Z1. Does it work with season tickets preventing a zone extension payment being taken out of the payg balance? Once again I do not know, but it should! As far as I understand it, the Oyster readers just open the gates if they recognise a travelcard valid in their zone - they don't record where you went - for example they don't record an incomplete journey if you fail to touch out. So you only get charged if you touch in or out when you are out of zone. If you have a Travelcard, they do record where you went, as is clear from the new journey history on the Oyster website. They can't charge for no touch in/out inside the valid zones, due to extension tickets being available to/from mainline stations outside the zones. |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 20, 2012 22:17:22 GMT
talking of Journey planner, it is confusing me no end. On the TfL website engineering work pages it clearly states that the Victoria Line is closed on Oct 20th, but despite alerting me to many other sources of disruption it happily suggests a journey to Stansted on that date can by made by using the Vic and changing at Tottenham Hale. It also suggests the W&C has engineering work every weekend (Saturday and Sunday!) in October, but there is no suggestion in the detailed listing of any such work.
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Post by Chris M on Sept 21, 2012 8:43:10 GMT
The engineering work feature of the journeyplanner is inconsistently useful. I'm about to make a journey from Woolwich to Loughton, which involves changing between the DLR and Jubilee at Canning Town. Roadworks affecting night buses in the Canning Town area are therefore entirely irrelevant, but are given a full half-page of detail.
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10 minute walk down Gunnersbury Lane to Acton Town and there are lifts at the station so it isn't too bad if you have luggage. It might even be faster than going via Rayners Lane or Green Park!
How embarassing, yes I just looked now. Having not looked at an aerial view for a few years its clear things have changed, and I must have mis-remembered other things aswell.
