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Post by uzairjubilee on Jul 31, 2012 13:58:43 GMT
Has it ever been thought of reversing the way Piccadilly line trains run around the loop?
Instead of trains running:
Hatton Cross - Heathrow T4 - Heathrow T1&3 - Hatton Cross, to divert trains straight through to T1&3 so that all trains running west of Northfields run to T1&3, with 50% to T5 and 50% to T4.
Trains would then run:
Hatton Cross - Heathrow T1&3 - Heathrow T4 - Hatton Cross
The track immediately west of Hatton Cross would have to be changed, as there is no access to the westbound platform from T4.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 31, 2012 14:16:14 GMT
I like the idea, but what would it gain? T4 stand time plays quite a part in regulating the structure of that bit of the Picc TT.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Jul 31, 2012 14:53:25 GMT
Hm, well at the moment trains via T4 have to wait for up to 8 mins at T4 before continuing to T1&3, so perhaps routing them to T1&3 could result in quicker (?) trains to T1&3.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 31, 2012 15:11:32 GMT
Hm, well at the moment trains via T4 have to wait for up to 8 mins at T4 before continuing to T1&3, so perhaps routing them to T1&3 could result in quicker (?) trains to T1&3. I think the suggestion would materially affect trains from T5, but more likely affect trains on the approaches to T123 - there isn't a huge number of signal sections there, so trains would crawl block-to-block quite easily. |
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Post by Deep Level on Jul 31, 2012 15:29:43 GMT
I've always liked the idea of:
Hatton Cross - Heathrow T1,2,3 - Heathrow T4 - Heathrow T1,2,3 - Hatton Cross
and
Hatton Cross - Heathrow T1,2,3 - Heathrow T5 - Heathrow T1,2,3 - Hatton Cross
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Post by uzairjubilee on Jul 31, 2012 18:35:57 GMT
That seems good too
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Post by pgb on Jul 31, 2012 19:22:17 GMT
I like the idea, but what would it gain? T4 stand time plays quite a part in regulating the structure of that bit of the Picc TT. It would stop me getting annoyed with the auto-announcer as Terminal 4 and 1, 2, 3 doesn't sound right. It would then be able to say "Terminals 1, 2, 3 and Terminal 4". Would sound much better and could help people learn English  |
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Post by Deep Level on Jul 31, 2012 20:52:54 GMT
With the current set-up I can't help but feel that it should just announce 'Terminal 4' being that trains wait there for up to 9 minutes and it isn't advisable to go to Heathrow Terminals 1,2&3 via 4 anyway.
I'm wondering what's going to happen when Terminal 1 closes next year.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Jul 31, 2012 21:05:48 GMT
With the current set-up I can't help but feel that it should just announce 'Terminal 4' being that trains wait there for up to 9 minutes and it isn't advisable to go to Heathrow Terminals 1,2&3 via 4 anyway. I'm wondering what's going to happen when Terminal 1 closes next year. Maybe it's so that passengers for T1&3 don't have to wait on the same platform potentially causing congestion, and can at least get as far as T4. I never knew it wasn't advisable to travel via T4! Well Terminal 2 has closed for some time now and I'm pretty sure I have the DVA on a train at Earl's Court say "This is a Piccadilly line service to Heathrow Terminals 1,2,3&5." The "2" hasn't been removed, so probably won't be for Terminal 1 either. Not too sure though. |
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Post by Deep Level on Jul 31, 2012 21:13:59 GMT
But T2 is only closed temporarily, T1 will be closing permanently.
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Post by crusty54 on Jul 31, 2012 21:33:01 GMT
I believe T123 will go back to Heathrow Central (with T5 possibly becoming Heathrow West)
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Post by Deep Level on Jul 31, 2012 21:40:05 GMT
I really doubt T5 will become Heathrow West being that it describes what's there nicely, same as the NR Station. Does anyone know why Heathrow T1,2,3 isn't shown as an interchange with Heathrow Central NR and the same for the T4 and T5 NR alternatives?
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Post by Hassaan on Jul 31, 2012 21:42:27 GMT
I believe T123 will go back to Heathrow Central (with T5 possibly becoming Heathrow West) And then Terminal 4 becomes "Heathrow South" ;D I'd prefer if the T123 was renamed to Heathrow Central. Would certainly help shorten the station name, which would be good for announcements, and they should then be: (assuming the other station stay the same) "This is a Piccadilly line service to Heathrow Terminal 4" "This is a Piccadilly line service to Heathrow Terminal 5 via Heathrow Central" Once last year I was on a Piccadilly line train that was announcing: "This is a Piccadilly line service to Heathrow Terminals 1 2 and 3, via Terminal 4". |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2012 22:21:25 GMT
Reversing the direction of the Heathrow Loop would add a conflicting move. Not a good idea!
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Post by Jerome H on Jul 31, 2012 22:30:08 GMT
I liked the Deep Level idea of getting rid of loop usage. Would make interchange easier between terminals. But as I know little (all right, nothing) about how that railway is designed nor have I observed passenger needs, this post serves to add nothing to the table  |
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Post by v52gc on Aug 1, 2012 6:06:14 GMT
Has it ever been thought of reversing the way Piccadilly line trains run around the loop? Instead of trains running: Hatton Cross - Heathrow T4 - Heathrow T1&3 - Hatton Cross, to divert trains straight through to T1&3 so that all trains running west of Northfields run to T1&3, with 50% to T5 and 50% to T4. Trains would then run: Hatton Cross - Heathrow T1&3 - Heathrow T4 - Hatton Cross The track immediately west of Hatton Cross would have to be changed, as there is no access to the westbound platform from T4. I would have to add that the track would need to be changed a bit further West of Hatton Cross if you wanted to do it this way without creating a conflicting move. As the W/B junction from Hatton Cross to T4 or T123 is half a trains length from the platform if you wanted to create a fly-under it would need to be done further towards T4. Things like this were suggested for the T5 extension as well as a third platform at Hatton Cross, a T4-HTX shuttle or a T4-Osterley shuttle ( the 73s even have quite a few redundant options for this on the DVA). I've always liked the idea of: Hatton Cross - Heathrow T1,2,3 - Heathrow T4 - Heathrow T1,2,3 - Hatton Crossand Hatton Cross - Heathrow T1,2,3 - Heathrow T5 - Heathrow T1,2,3 - Hatton CrossAlthough a good idea the problem with this is the distance between T123 and T4 with it being single tracked: The current run time between the two is 6 minutes and a minimum driver turn around time is 4 minutes, although probably 6 minutes would be used to add a bit of recovery time. This means the T4 service would be halved. Once last year I was on a Piccadilly line train that was announcing: "This is a Piccadilly line service to Heathrow Terminals 1 2 and 3, via Terminal 4". There is one running around that will do this  . It also depends on if the "last stop" train destination is set as T123 or onwards towards Cockfosters when at the Westbound starting station. Also the announcement on the Eastbound at Hatton Cross will tend to be different if the train has gone round the Loop or comes from T5. Personally I don't like the current arrangement either, but it is the best with what is available. I suppose my suggestion would be a T123-T4 shuttle but once again it would reduce T4's service to a 20min service frequency, would necessitate stepping back at T123 to reduce platform dwell time interfering with the T5 service. It would be very tight though and trains would most definitely have waits to get into T123. T5 would also be tight with a 5 minute service frequency due to the "clever" location of the crossovers. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2012 0:52:00 GMT
Perhaps it could be made to work by flipping the direction of the running lines - a la East Acton/White City on the central. either through a rework of the trackwork around Northfields or a new flyover construction between Hounslows West and Central would suffice. Will certainly remove your conflict at Hatton Cross. Land take won't be too high looking at East Acton on Google Maps, certainly do-able immediatey east of Hounslow West, and the Picc is due for resignalling in the next 10 years or so. It offers more flexibility to punters aswell - by putting everyone into Heathrow Central first, if one branch or t'other is down it's a relatively easy interchange to HEX to get to your desired terminal. At the moment if the T5 branch goes down everything has to go via T4, which is a pain if you're trying to get to Central!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2012 23:56:00 GMT
Perhaps it could be made to work by flipping the direction of the running lines - a la East Acton/White City on the central. either through a rework of the trackwork around Northfields or a new flyover construction between Hounslows West and Central would suffice. Will certainly remove your conflict at Hatton Cross. Land take won't be too high looking at East Acton on Google Maps, certainly do-able immediatey east of Hounslow West, and the Picc is due for resignalling in the next 10 years or so. It offers more flexibility to punters aswell - by putting everyone into Heathrow Central first, if one branch or t'other is down it's a relatively easy interchange to HEX to get to your desired terminal. At the moment if the T5 branch goes down everything has to go via T4, which is a pain if you're trying to get to Central! So you would spend loads of money on re-signalling and infrastructure for very little benefit? |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Aug 4, 2012 11:43:37 GMT
It's a train every 10 minutes to Terminal 5 right? How many to T4?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Aug 4, 2012 14:53:12 GMT
It's a train every 10 minutes to Terminal 5 right? How many to T4? Every 10mins peak/off-peak to both, with slight reduction to T4 before 07:45 SAT and 09:00 SUN. |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Aug 4, 2012 16:30:41 GMT
ADMIN:
Gents, this thread is heading rapidly towards RIPAS territory - you may well find it there by the time you come to need it again .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 9:59:33 GMT
ok... T1 closes, leaving 4 terminals... will they simply renumber the 4 remaining terminals (the stations would then be T1 & 2, T3 and T4)
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 2, 2012 10:19:09 GMT
I think that would be a recipe for massive confusion!
If you were to reorganise numbers at Heathrow I think there would need to be an intermediate period of at least 10 if not 20 years before any terminal was designated with a number presently used by a different one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 10:28:07 GMT
yeah, leave as T's 1(disused),2 & 3, T4, and T5
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Post by Deep Level on Oct 2, 2012 14:56:17 GMT
I believe that is going to be the case although I'm not sure how having Terminals 2 - 5 is any less confusing.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2012 21:17:57 GMT
The new terminal being built that will eventually replace Terminals 1 and 2 is officially called Heathrow East. So renaming of the current "Heathrow Terminal 1,2,3" station is likely to be more along the lines of "Heathrow East and Terminal 3".
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Post by Deep Level on Oct 2, 2012 23:44:23 GMT
No, the new terminal is replacing Terminal 2 and is going to retain the name 'Terminal 2'. It will eventually be extended to replace the current Terminal 1 although will continue to retain the name 'Terminal 2'.
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Oct 3, 2012 8:32:46 GMT
No, the new terminal is replacing Terminal 2 and is going to retain the name 'Terminal 2'. It will eventually be extended to replace the current Terminal 1 although will continue to retain the name 'Terminal 2'. In retrospect,giving the terminals numbers was a bit of a mistake,wasn't it? When I was very small they had names (Britannia,Europa and Oceania,if memory serves me correctly) which also told passengers which terminal served their flight... |
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l1group
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Post by l1group on Jan 4, 2013 18:23:50 GMT
Does anyone know why Heathrow T1,2,3 isn't shown as an interchange with Heathrow Central NR and the same for the T4 and T5 NR alternatives? Is it because the Heathrow Express/Connect services doesn't accept TfL tickets from the Heathrow NR stations? If they were shown on the tube map, people could assume that the NR services did accept TfL tickets, when they don't. It is "shown" as an (indirect) interchange in the London Connections/Oyster rail services map, with the NR awkwardly outside of the Oyster boundaries. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2013 22:09:06 GMT
My assumption would be that its because its not a logical interchange - not many people would go out to Heathrow LU to get on an NR train to Paddington.
I guess a handful living in Hatton Cross/ Hounslow might choose to change for an NR train at Heathrow, rather than changing at Hammersmith and going up the H&C but it wouldn't apply to that many I wouldn't imagine.
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