Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 20:41:46 GMT
Back in the early '70s the Met evening off peak service was:- 15' Uxbridge to Baker St, 15' Watford to Baker Street, 60' fast Amersham to Baker Street, & 30' Chesham Shuttle. Forget Aldgate! There was also a 60' Aylesbury – Marylebone service with 115 DMU's but that didn't run too late! From 23.00 Baker St NB service intervals were widened to 20' on the all station services to Uxbridge and Watford. And then some even before that. The 21.35 Baker Street– Watford on arrival then ran empty to Rickmansworth to form a 22.38 all stations to Baker Street thereby creating a 30' headway out of Watford, but in turn plugging a big gap at Ricky SB. After the 22.16 (last) DMU to Marylebone from Rickmansworth the next SB service was not away from Amersham until 23.08! This was I think so that it could form the last fast Amersham from Baker Street at just after midnight - and self contained services were sacrosanct! As a result a 55' minute layover took place at Amersham between 22.13-23.08 which must be close to a record for the longest layover of a service train ever on the underground. The running time from Amersham to Baker Street was only 40'!  Meanwhile the fun continued unabated back at Baker St where the 23.30 to Watford actually went to Ricky creating a 40' gap to Croxley and Watford before the last train at 23.50. There was also a 90' gap in the fast Amersham service from Baker Street between 22.31 and 00.01, courtesy of our A stock having it's long layover at Amersham (see above). This situation was tempered by BR having the 'courtesy' to run a 23.22 from Marylebone to Amersham and Aylesbury. This is all from memory so please feel free to dismantle this blast from the past, but I think the end of service NB from Baker St was:- 23.40 UXBRIDGE 23.50 WATFORD 00.01 AMERSHAM (Fast) (no connection for Chesham with the shuttle long gone to bed!) 00.05 RICKMANSWORTH 00.17 UXBRIDGE 00.26 HARROW 00.35 & 00.45 WEMBLEY PARK (off H&C/Circle) Compare the Metropolitan Line end of service now with 11 trains no less between 00.08 and 00.48 leaving Baker Street NB. Times they do change! (Pun) Regards nv  |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on May 31, 2012 20:48:06 GMT
Back in the early '70s the Met evening off peak service was:- 15' Uxbridge to Baker St, 15' Watford to Baker Street, 60' fast Amersham to Baker Street, & 30' Chesham Shuttle. Forget Aldgate! There was also a 60' Aylesbury – Marylebone service with 115 DMU's but that didn't run too late! From 23.00 Baker St NB service intervals were widened to 20' on the all station services to Uxbridge and Watford. And then some even before that. The 21.35 Baker Street– Watford on arrival then ran empty to Rickmansworth to form a 22.38 all stations to Baker Street thereby creating a 30' headway out of Watford, but in turn plugging a big gap at Ricky SB. After the 22.16 (last) DMU to Marylebone from Rickmansworth the next SB service was not away from Amersham until 23.08! This was I think so that it could form the last fast Amersham from Baker Street at just after midnight - and self contained services were sacrosanct! As a result a 55' minute layover took place at Amersham between 22.13-23.08 which must be close to a record for the longest layover of a service train ever on the underground. The running time from Amersham to Baker Street was only 40'! Meanwhile the fun continued unabated back at Baker St where the 23.30 to Watford actually went to Ricky creating a 40' gap to Croxley and Watford before the last train at 23.50. There was also a 90' gap in the fast Amersham service from Baker Street between 22.31 and 00.01, courtesy of our A stock having it's long layover at Amersham (see above). This situation was tempered by BR having the 'courtesy' to run a 23.22 from Marylebone to Amersham and Aylesbury. This is all from memory so please feel free to dismantle this blast from the past, but I think the end of service NB from Baker St was:- 23.40 UXBRIDGE 23.50 WATFORD 00.01 AMERSHAM (Fast) (no connection for Chesham with the shuttle long gone to bed!) 00.05 RICKMANSWORTH 00.17 UXBRIDGE 00.26 HARROW 00.35 & 00.45 WEMBLEY PARK (off H&C/Circle) Compare the Metropolitan Line end of service now with 11 trains no less between 00.08 and 00.48 leaving Baker Street NB. Times they do change! (Pun) Regards nv Very interesting What time was the last train from Aldgate back then? |
|
|
|
Post by causton on May 31, 2012 20:48:51 GMT
I'd like to have that timetable back, just for the run to Wembley Park off the Circle! |
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,400
|
Post by metman on May 31, 2012 20:51:36 GMT
You may have found that your train was CO/CP stock in the very early 70s!  |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on May 31, 2012 20:51:58 GMT
I'd like to have that timetable back, just for the run to Wembley Park off the Circle! And for the fast services (at 70mph!!) |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 21:03:57 GMT
@ nv147 - I think you're almost spot on, if not definitely spot on. I was a Controller on the Met in the 1970s and the last trains you mention were indeed correct.
It's amazing to think that the current Met WTT midday off-peak (and Sat/Sun 'busy') requires 35 trains. Then there were 6x4 Uxb, 7x4 Watford, 1x4 Chesham and 2x4 Amersham. This equates to 16x4 or just 8x8-car trains out of a fleet total of 58x8-car trains. Effectively, most of the fleet (50x8-car trains) was idle outside peak hours. Maybe this leisurely lifestyle for the A Stock is why they have lasted for so long?
I was also the night Met (and Bakerloo) Controller at the time of the Royal Silver Jubilee in 1977 and I am sure we ran an hour later on all lines.
|
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on May 31, 2012 21:10:39 GMT
@ nv147 - I think you're almost spot on, if not definitely spot on. I was a Controller on the Met in the 1970s and the last trains you mention were indeed correct. It's amazing to think that the current Met WTT midday off-peak (and Sat/Sun 'busy') requires 35 trains. Then there were 6x4 Uxb, 7x4 Watford, 1x4 Chesham and 2x4 Amersham. This equates to 16x4 or just 8x8-car trains out of a fleet total of 58x8-car trains. Effectively, most of the fleet (50x8-car trains) was idle outside peak hours. Maybe this leisurely lifestyle for the A Stock is why they have lasted for so long? I was also the night Met (and Bakerloo) Controller at the time of the Royal Silver Jubilee in 1977 and I am sure we ran an hour later on all lines. Yes, and that midday off peak service pattern didn't really change much until about 1990 when the off peak Aldgate service began, although by then they'd increased the Amersham service to 30mins and uncoupling had ended, meaning it would have been all 8 cars. However, it is strange to think of50 trains sitting around doing nothing for most of the day. What was the peak service requrement back then? |
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,400
|
Post by metman on May 31, 2012 21:23:00 GMT
I don't remember the peak service but some trains were in use on the East London Line from 1977. Ah the old days.....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 21:30:56 GMT
Met peak services:
After the end of loco-hauled stock:
11/9/61 - 50
18/6/62 - 53
12/10/64 - 45
11/10/65 - 46
6/12/82 - 40
11/5/87 - 44
14/5/90 - 42
28/9/97 - 44
23/5/04 - 46
11/6/06 - 47
13/12/09 - 49
12/12/10 - 48
11/12/11 - 50
|
|
Ben
fotopic... whats that?
Posts: 4,282 
|
Post by Ben on Jun 1, 2012 0:09:08 GMT
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Jun 1, 2012 2:25:32 GMT
You rotter - much as I may occasionally think that the MET is the GW <spit> of the LPTB - my No 1 section WTTs are currently 4 boxes down! I've moved some of the boxes looking for interwar District and Northern WTTs, so I've buried the Met ones even further..... <sigh>
There is a lot yet to be said about the Met going back to the City off-peak, I've seen a goodly amount of curious things relating to this significant ..er.. ..er... paradigm shift [1], but have never quite understood the sudden change in feeding a lot more trains through Farringdon - I have a suspicion that NOOTability or 526 (or 361bar) played a part in this event.
[1] sorry.
|
|
|
|
Post by redsetter on Jun 1, 2012 7:03:26 GMT
very few went to aldgate,i was on one back in 1976 in the am peak.it was all baker street.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2012 10:51:00 GMT
In answer to superteacher's first post I am not quite sure. But the last pm peak train from the city actually started from Liverpool St bay about 18.30 and terminated at Amersham.
A couple of other strange anomalies of that late evening service spring to mind.
The Chesham Shuttle trip away from Chesham at about 22.30 connected into nothing at Chalfont & Latimer other than itself going back!
And I think there may have been a 23.01 Baker St - Amersham. Upshot is that a train had to start from Neasden Depot at about 22.30 to maintain the off peak pattern. Bizarre.
The 00.35 AND 00.45 H&C/Circle runs to Wembley Park were CO/CP until introduction of the 'C' stock, and would have also called at Willesden Green and Neasden Met platforms as the Bakerloo NB service had finished even earlier. (I think there have been some WTT's over the years where some METs called at all stations Wembley Park to Finchley Road at the extremes of the traffic day to enhance the Bakerloo service. Route availability now long since withdrawn.)
I recall travelling one of those H&C/Circle to Wembley Park trains as a young lad with my father. We had attempted to visit every Underground station in one day with our only aid being the First and Last trains publicity book (maroon cover?) This obviously ended in glorious failure as we had :-
a) started at Wembley Park at 05.00, and not Ongar or Upminster which I think was always a necessity to achieve the goal
b) attempted this on a Saturday when not all Underground stations were open!!!!
eg. Olympia and Aldwych
c) lunch!
I think our only claim to fame was that we SAW every station that was open on that day. West Harrow from a Met train on the other branch, and Mill Hill East from Finchley Central but that one required laser eyesight and a lot of imagination.
Anyway we were going to end the day at Wembley Park as we had started (for the car home). Being young and by then very tired from the days journeying, I remember being most upset at Baker Street having persuaded my father to wait for the last Wembley Parks as they were 'red trains'! What had tipped me over the edge to create my distress was being told by a member of station staff that there was no such 'red trains'. He was to be proved wrong.
nv
|
|
|
|
Post by grahamhewett on Jun 1, 2012 11:17:22 GMT
I remember that 0005 well, living in Pinner, which meant leaving central London at about 23.40, otherwise a long walk from Harrow. One feature which surprised was finding a copy of that day's newspaper already discarded, presumably having already made a round trip.
GH
|
|
|
|
Post by redsetter on Jun 1, 2012 12:30:13 GMT
there's some pictures.   |
|
|
|
Post by grahamhewett on Jun 1, 2012 12:37:53 GMT
The thread prompted me to dig out the 1986 (no 286) WTT (only 2 cu ft of stuff fell on me, mainly back numbers of the Lithuanian rail timetable...). Virtually no change at all (the 0005 had become 0004 MF/0006 Sa) - an amazing piece of timetable stability.
GH
|
|
|
|
Post by ruislip on Jun 2, 2012 5:47:27 GMT
I remember one Met stabling in Uxbridge's platform 1 between the peaks M-F. Wasn't there also an era when a Piccadilly train stabled in one of Uxbridge's platforms between the peaks?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2012 7:58:06 GMT
At one time a Picc stabled overnight in the platforms at Uxbridge, as indeed one does now.
|
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jun 7, 2012 14:37:48 GMT
there's some pictures. Good pics. In the top pic, is that a CO/CP train on the right? |
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 7, 2012 15:06:14 GMT
Good pics. In the top pic, is that a CO/CP train on the right? Indeed it is. |
|
|
|
Post by ruislip on Jun 7, 2012 16:54:45 GMT
there's some pictures. Good pics. In the top pic, is that a CO/CP train on the right? Was the top pic taken @ Baker St or Aldgate? |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jun 7, 2012 16:59:04 GMT
I thoght it was Baker Street initially, but it could be Aldgate. The doors on the A stock are closed, making me think it's been stabled there between the peaks. Did they stable an A stock at Aldgate back then? I'm assuming the CO/CP stock is also stabled in that case.
EDIT: The set number is 62, which I'm sure would have been an inter-peak stabler.
|
|
DWS
every second count's
Posts: 2,423
|
Post by DWS on Jun 7, 2012 19:22:50 GMT
The Trains are at Baker Street, the tiles are the give away.
|
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jun 7, 2012 19:29:07 GMT
The Trains are at Baker Street, the tiles are the give away. Good point. Not sure why the doors of the A stock are closed though. Perhaps it was just departing maybe. |
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 7, 2012 19:59:21 GMT
My guess is that this is the early '80s, possibly during a CO/CP Stock tour?
The A Stock would probably be a 4-car using pfm2-3 to reverse as no City services operated off-peak.
|
|
|
|
Post by ruislip on Jun 8, 2012 0:06:05 GMT
EDIT: The set number is 62, which I'm sure would have been an inter-peak stabler. That would imply an uncoupled Watford service. |
|
|
|
Post by ruislip on Jun 8, 2012 0:08:15 GMT
My guess is that this is the early '80s, possibly during a CO/CP Stock tour? I'm guessing it is no later than 1971, with the CO/CP stock, coming from the Hammersmith & City, maybe on its way to stable @ Neasden depot after the morning peak. |
|
Harsig
Posts: 980
Member is Online
|
Post by Harsig on Jun 8, 2012 11:00:31 GMT
EDIT: The set number is 62, which I'm sure would have been an inter-peak stabler. I think you're making the mistake of applying the principles of recent train numbering schemes to the past. Glancing at a 1979 Met Timetable (after the date of the photographs, I know, but still reasonably likely to have the same train numbering scheme) I find that trains numbered in the range 62 to 77 were the uncoupled portions of other trains and were thus only to be seen between the peaks. More specifically trains 62 to 65 uncoupled at Watford from trains 12 to 15. Train 65 immediately stabled at Watford until recoupling commenced for the evening peak, an odd number of 4 car sets being required for the Watford service. Trains 71 & 72 uncoupled at Rickmansworth from trains 1 & 2. Both 71 & 72 then stabled until recoupling commenced. Trains 75 to 77 uncoupled at Uxbridge from trains 35 to 37. Train 60 was the Chesham Shuttle. All other trains not already mentioned (3 to 11, 16 to 32 & 40 to 57) also stabled between the peaks. |
|
|
|
Post by ruislip on Jun 8, 2012 13:17:57 GMT
The 2nd picture seems to be taken inside an A60. IIRC, they had red padding on the seats; the A62s had gray padding...
|
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Jun 9, 2012 12:11:37 GMT
EDIT: The set number is 62, which I'm sure would have been an inter-peak stabler. I think you're making the mistake of applying the principles of recent train numbering schemes to the past. Glancing at a 1979 Met Timetable (after the date of the photographs, I know, but still reasonably likely to have the same train numbering scheme) I find that trains numbered in the range 62 to 77 were the uncoupled portions of other trains and were thus only to be seen between the peaks. More specifically trains 62 to 65 uncoupled at Watford from trains 12 to 15. Train 65 immediately stabled at Watford until recoupling commenced for the evening peak, an odd number of 4 car sets being required for the Watford service. Trains 71 & 72 uncoupled at Rickmansworth from trains 1 & 2. Both 71 & 72 then stabled until recoupling commenced. Trains 75 to 77 uncoupled at Uxbridge from trains 35 to 37. Train 60 was the Chesham Shuttle. All other trains not already mentioned (3 to 11, 16 to 32 & 40 to 57) also stabled between the peaks. Yes, I should have remembered that train numbering has changed over the years! Thanks for the info about uncoupling. I don't have any old WTT's that involve uncoupling, so an insight into how it was done and the train numbering is very useful. |
|
