Stock running on other lines

The key issue with the subsurface lines was that rolling stock replacement was not required at the same time. Consider 1959; the Met is running about 5 different types of stock and needs to expand with electrification to Amersham. Much of the stock is old and outdated and a safety risk in tunnels! The Circle and Hammersmith and City have O/P stock only 20 years old and the District has new R stock and Q stock which still has 5-10 years life left.

So the Met gets the brand new trains, all the old Met stock is scrapped and the most modern trains go to the District which allows the oldest Q stock to go to the breakers.

Ten years later and the Q stock is nearly 50 years old. It is replaced by a small order of high capacity trains and the CO and CP stock can go to the District and join the R stock which is 10 years younger. It is at this point that it must be realised that perhaps the R and CO/CP stocks can be replaced together by a universal stock for the District. The CO/CP stock just has to hang on, it does. Therefore in 1980, a new batch of purpose built district stock is ordered and a further 11 trains of C stock enter service.

It is interesting to consider if the A stock was poorly built and packed up at the end of the 90s what would have replaced it and how would this have been affected by the upgrade plan.....

Returning to tube stock, perhaps the 1972 stock was the last that could run on the entire network?

Probably concur with Metman on this, the 72s might possibly be the last trains built that can fit the variety of structural gauges on the system, though would not have been able to run in passenger service as delivered and when delivered on the victoria line!

Probably that accolayde of universal clearance in pax mode upon delivery might go to the 62ts.

Throw in a suggestion; the 1986ts, in terms of body envelope? Though not signalling wise, and possibly not aux equipment wise?

I would suggest the 1992ts body (if it lasted long enough!), though aren't the axel boxes an issue or something?

Think its fair to say now though there technically can't be one, as only the 1992ts has run on the W&C, yet this has never and would never run on the Vic, eg.

Yes the 1972 stock (both mark I and II) ran on the Northern. The Mark II stock has also run on the Jubilee and now on the Bakerloo. Some converted Mark I cars ran on the Victoria and still make up a few trains on the Bakerloo. There was talk of 1972 stock on the Waterloo and City a few years back. There is a 1972 stock unit on the Aldwych shuttle too -I think it is still there.

The last stock to really do the rounds was the Standard Stock which ran on all the lines at one stage!

Indeed, the 2009 stock was built to bigger proportions than the 1967 stock to increase capacity too.

The ELL was a bit of special case. Only recently has an increase in capacity been required due to the additional journey options.

In the past the ELL used whatever spare stock was required. Between 1953 and 1977 it used in approx this order F stock, Q stock, CP Stock, Q stock, CO/CP Stock and finally 1938 stock. The reason the 1938 stock was used was due to wheel faults developing on the CO/CP stock. This stock was still in everyday use on the District Line and (please correct me) made up half of the train fleet (including the Putney serivce). Therefore the units on the ELL were pulled out. The 1938 was actually in the process of being rationalised and scrapped but 8 units were put aside for the service.

Sometimes Extra heavy overhaul units from the Bakerloo were used as the older 38ts was not very reliable. When the Northern City closed, the float of spare units became greater.

As Met services had never reached anticipated levels of use, spare A60/62 (yes A62 did use the ELL in those days too) were made available for the service. In reality, if the wheel problems had not surfaced on the CO/CP stock it is likely that these 5 car trains would have continued till the late 1970s when the first stage of scrapping began on delivery of the C77 stock.

It says a lot for the versitility of the 1938 stock that it ran on the ELL, Northern (and City), Piccadilly, Bakerloo and breifly the Central Line (Ongar shuttle!).

Probably not directly but the ELL trains like the A stock were part of a larger pool of trains set aside for the task. The CO/CP stock was formed into 2 and 3 car units. The Putney service used 2x3 M-T-M+M-T-M cars but the District Line used 2x2+1x3 M-M+M-M+M-T-M. The East London Line used M-T-M+M-M although M-M+M-M no doubt were used in times of shortage of 3 car units.

I wonder if that was due to the engineering modifications carried out....

I think District stock used to run the service in 1914 before the above noted stock was ready. This was mainly E stock during the Great War I think I read. Not sure about the inter war period.

Thanks - Do you know if there are there any photos of these workings ?

XF

Similarly, didn't the District allow Standard Stock from the Picc to work thru to South Harrow until the 1932 handover of that branch to the Picc?