Are buses restricted to 62mph?

Green Line buses appear to go very fast (for buses) sometimes on the motorway, often even passing vehicles which are themselves going fairly fast. They are certainly familiar with the outside lane.

I know our Arriva buses are restricted as you can feel them cut out when they reach a certain speed.
Yet one of the long distance buses was going flat out at around 70mph double decker! You could see the spedo!

Modern Buses and Coaches are limited by law to 65mph. But surprisingly the speed limit for PSVs for non limited vehicles on a motorway remains at 70mph. So basically anything older than about 40 years (or whenever the limiter rules came in) could theoretically operate at 70mph on a motorway. Obviously as long as it does not stray into the third lane. At which point it would break the law.

However in the days of the RTs it would be unlikely that you could get one on the flat to go over 45mph. Admittedly there would be a few exceptions to the rule! The main problem not being speed but the ability of the brakes and steering to react at high speeds. The braking systems on older buses is not up to today’s standards.

Generally buses delivered to London up to about the mid 1980s were governed to around 45mph and had low ratio diffs which assisted in stop / start motoring, but the downside was a lower MPH and higher fuel consumption due to the low ratio gearing. Like I say there was some exceptions, the RMA,s RMC’s and RCL,s spring to mind. Theses had high ratio diffs (the RMAs with the highest) and 11.3L AV690 engines.

Now days buses tend to be a National product with the same diffs and same driveline. In fact they are very similar to lorries. Surprisingly functions like a sixth gear or a lower ratio gear are locked out electronically, so drivers would not be aware of their existence.

Speed control is through engine management devices rather than fuel management. It’s entirely possible for an E200 Dart to exceed 70mph if you have the relevant software to reset the engine management. Which of course we do not have access to.

To inhibit acceleration, TfL require buses to attain a certain speed over a certain period of time. From memory (and without looking!) I think its 20mph but not before 15 seconds has elapsed.

Whats the main benefit of limiting at 62.5/65mph instead of 70mph? Seems small enough a difference to be non intuitive.

Would there ever be enough justification to allow buses to accelerate faster? Or is that level determined because of standing passengers, etc?

I have wondered at times how this law is phrased. Is it lane three, outside lane, or something else? What are the rules for two lane motorways, or those with more than three?

I can see why Buses are restricted but why are vans/Minibuses restricted?
I know my minibus which we rented once was restricted to 62mph it was a 16 seater iveco daily.
However with it being non- comerical I can't understand why it was?

It's just the law that's been standardised across the EU re: the 100 kph limit. (new) Buses are restricted to save fuel and for passenger comfort. London bus drivers drive quite harshly lol.

OH, poor, poor jardine01. Speed obsessed AGAIN!!!

The reason is simply risk assessment. A coch or bus travelling at 70mph has 27% more (kinetic) energy than at 62mph so the effect on passengers in a crash is much higher. And a line has to be drawn somewhere so 62 (a nice round 100 in metric) is deemed appropriate. And why should non-commercial passengers be at more risk than commercial ones?

Why are there any speeds? Why still no 80mph on motorways despite many of the safety organisations say it would be safer (though some don't)? The answer is calculated risk by the risk experts.

I think it was prior to 2007 that vehicles up to 7.5 tons did need limiters at all. That includes small lorries. When the restrictions were brought it, it included any vehicle with over 8 seats - which means a Mercedes Sprinter vehicle with a gross vehicle weight of under 3.5 tons is restricted to 62 and banned from the outside lane.

Does anyone know if the clause whereby 'if your vehicle is fitted with a limiter then you are banned from the outside lane' is a recent addition? Examples of this are speed limited tesco delivery vans - restricted to 58 mph trying to over take a coach which can do 62 mph but is stuck at 55 mph behind a lorry in lane 2.

The energy calculations make sense however, tell that to a truck driver whose 3.5 ton vehicle is limited by law to 90 kph / 56 mph when a huge behemoth like a tri-axle Van Hool Astromega Oxford tube coach can thunder past at 100 kph / 62 mph and maintain that speed on uphills!

One further point is that many drivers make is why they are speed limited in the name of safety when they've seen trains thundering past at more than 100 mph in thick fog at Watford Gap alongside the M1?

Buses used on urban stop/start services have gearbox and rear axle ratios set for urban speeds, and the engine speed governor determines how fast they can travel. Buses and coaches used on longer distance services tend to have more gears and a faster rear axle ratio which means they have to have their road speed limited.

One question, though. Is there a speed limit if the vehicle is carrying standing passengers? National Express coaches don't carry standing passengers, but any "bus" could use a motorway or dual carriageway. If it does, is there a speed limit if the vehicle is carrying standing passengers, or if it is certified to carry standing passengers?

Except for the first lane the correct term for all lanes on a dual carriageway or a motorway is 'overtaking lane'. Coaches are not barred from the outside lane on three lane carriageways, this rule only applies to heavy goods vehicles.

I used to know a driver who drove for first, he normally drove a trident plaxton on my old school route which would end it's last journey at Harold Hill (Dagnam Park Road) and then he'll be requires to go back to Dagenham Depot and I lived in Dagenham so I'd often go with him on this journey. He's chosen route from Harold Hill to Dagenham was via the A12, M25 & A13 which is of course the fastest so to this he had to do something with the ignition thingy (the thing that started the engine (not a key)) which turns off the limiter. I think he mentioned to me that he isn't actually allowed to do it but did (although that might not have been said).

No!
Highway Code section 265
"The right-hand lane of a motorway with three or more lanes MUST NOT be used (except in prescribed circumstances) if you are driving
•any vehicle drawing a trailer
•a goods vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 3.5 tonnes but not exceeding 7.5 tonnes, which is required to be fitted with a speed limiter
•a goods vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 7.5 tonnes
•a passenger vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 7.5 tonnes constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver
•a passenger vehicle with a maximum laden weight not exceeding 7.5 tonnes which is constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver, which is required to be fitted with a speed limiter"

In summary:
- anything required to have a speed limiter
- anything over 7.5 tonnes
- anything towing a trailer

must not use the right hand lane if there are at least two others.

So:
So a one lane carriageway - ok.
Two lanes - either lane.
Three lanes - the first two lanes.
Four lanes - the first three lanes.
Five lanes - the first four lanes.

"prescribed circumstances" include immediately after a lane drop, where a "reasonable distance" is allowed to leave the outside lane, and when overtaking an abnormal load with a police escort.

Well at least norbitonflyer's post at reply #26 has some factual basis to it, with a source mentioned.

There seems to be a number of "I think" posts, and a few opinions on what the law may or may not be yet with no sources quoted at all.

As a PCV licence holder, and bus owner, I thought the law was quite simple and hadn't changed since I passed my test in 1997 - clearly the law has technically changed but the basic principle appears to be the same; my bus is not allowed in the right hand lane where there are 3 or more lanes. That has always been the case as far as I'm concerned, though I was starting to get confused by all the different interpretations. Thank you to norbitonflyer!!

Judging by this thread, the need for LGV/PCV licence holders to complete a yearly one day training course - driver CPC - is an absolute necessity.

As for vehicles being legally limited to less than they're legally allowed to do for their class....nope, I don't get it How can a vehicle that is legally allowed to do 70mph on a motorway be "legally limited to 56mph". Or even "legally limited to 60mph". And as for 62mph.......

At the end of the day it'll either reach the legal limit for the class of vehicle and type of road, or it won't. My bus will do 50mph at a push, so I don't need to worry unless I'm in a 30 or 40 area - and I know I can't legally go in the right hand lane so I'll shall worry about myself and leave the rest to tie themselves up in legal knots!!