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Post by metroland on Apr 26, 2012 19:27:30 GMT
Apols if this has been discussed elsewhere.
For the section Amersham-Marylebone, only tripcock fitted units and locos are allowed (or normally used).
This question has arisen on another board with respect to Network Rail test train. Is it the case that a non-tripccok fitted loco can still use this line if there's a second man in the cab, or is it now mandatory for active locos/units to be tripcock fitted?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 20:20:51 GMT
A tripcock must be fitted to run in traffic hours. The LUL Senior Operating Officer could issue a waiver to this if they could justify it.
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Post by metroland on Apr 26, 2012 20:54:05 GMT
Thanks for that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 22:26:25 GMT
I believe that when a test train ran on this line recently they used one of the Class 66 locos that had trip cocks fitted for the Sandite season.
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Post by metroland on Apr 27, 2012 9:52:13 GMT
I believe that when a test train ran on this line recently they used one of the Class 66 locos that had trip cocks fitted for the Sandite season. Err not quite the case - it never ran! There are 3 tripcock fitted 66's (001/017/019). 66.019 hauled the train from Derby to Didcot the previous night but no other other loco appeared and the train returned to Derby. It was all rescheduled for this week (and hasn't happened again - all 3 tripcock 66's are all over the country). Hence discussion about whether it's essential to have these 3 and only these 3 locos* or whether there is any other option. (*The 4 blue 20's are sick, and the 4 20's currently used on the S stock deliveries are commited to that work). |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2012 14:07:25 GMT
(*The 4 blue 20's are sick, and the 4 20's currently used on the S stock deliveries are commited to that work). The 4 blue 20s are not sick! The lease agreement between GBRf and DRS finished and they are now being used by DRS again to haul flask trains. |
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Post by 21146 on Apr 27, 2012 15:21:14 GMT
What about "Steam on the Met"? Surely most of those locomotives (possibly excepting Met No.1) were not tripcock-fitted (though of course this is hardly recent history now, even though it feels like only yesterday to me).  |
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Post by 21146 on Apr 27, 2012 16:09:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2012 16:29:21 GMT
It is strange that network rail have a agreement with DB Schenker (the operator of the class 66 loco's in question) to run there test trains but on nearly all occasions DB Schenker sub-contract it to Direct Rail Service (the operator of the 4 'blue' class 20's+ lots of heritage loco's) as DB Schenker use the excuse they are too busy. But on this occasion network rail have chosen to use DB Schenker who have not managed to operate the train, probably because the class 20's would not have been able to cope.
What I would like to know is was anyone at LU (Metcontrol?) informed that the test train was booked to run over the metropolitan line? And even if that was necessary? And was that the reason for it not operating?
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Post by 21146 on Apr 27, 2012 16:45:56 GMT
Special Trains Notice No.96/12 was issued to cover the operation of train 1Q13 on LU between Amersham and Harrow-on-the-Hill.
Didn't go out to look for it, fortunately, as it turns out.
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Post by metroland on Apr 27, 2012 17:29:43 GMT
Special Trains Notice No.96/12 was issued to cover the operation of train 1Q13 on LU between Amersham and Harrow-on-the-Hill. Didn't go out to look for it, fortunately, as it turns out. Thanks - would you happen to know if there's any expiry date on that? Reason for asking is that the same paths were in for 2 days, 2 weeks ago (just in case?) and again the same path was in for 2 days this week. Presumably they will have to have another go. AAUI they need to check the most recent work in Amersham area. In any case NR need to check their own rail up to Mantles Wood boundary minimum once(?) per year, and with no reversal possible at the boundary (unless I'm mistaken) any NR test train south of Missenden has to come onto LUL metals at some stage. |
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Post by d7666 on May 5, 2012 18:29:53 GMT
Surely non-tripcock equipped national rail train movements are simply double manned in the same way certain planned movements are allowed over NR where AWS is inoperative for some reason. At least this is the way it used to be. There have been railtours out of Marylebone via Amersham with Hastings and 25s and 20s in BR days and none of them had tripcocks. I believe the general answer to non tripcock fitted trains in traffic hours require a waiver but for this specific route is executed in practice by double manning drivers ((and maybe an appropriate LU person present)). ISTR the tours I have been on did have operating stops at Amersham. I was one of the organisers of this www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/860511lc.htmand there were certainly no tripcocks on that lot just 2 BR drivers and an LU "inspector" for the want of knowing the correct LU term I know thats decades ago but I do not see any reason why that practice would have changed when it is in reality the pragmatic method that allows it all. -- Nick |
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Post by Chris M on May 6, 2012 21:28:53 GMT
I know thats decades ago but I do not see any reason why that practice would have changed when it is in reality the pragmatic method that allows it all. Everything has to be risk assessed and proven these days, so pragmatism is not permissible any more. In principle, risk assessment is a Very Good Thing, but when it's carried out by people who don't understand the risks they are assessing, perfectly safe things get prohibited. |
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Post by metroland on May 20, 2012 13:06:18 GMT
There's a path in for Monday 21st (and another for Tues 22nd). 1Q13 worked Derby-Didcot today TnT with 37's - we shall see what tomorrow brings. Last night the 3 tripcock 66's were variously at Hither Green, Bescot, and Staines (worksite)
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Post by Colin on May 20, 2012 19:43:53 GMT
I know thats decades ago but I do not see any reason why that practice would have changed when it is in reality the pragmatic method that allows it all. I'm not going to pretend I know what the current situation is, cos I don't, but I would suggest that a lot has changed over the years. Not least being that LU used to operate it's rules & procedures via something called the Working Reference Manual. The Working Reference Manual was operational when I joined LU in April 2001, was quite a large series of documents and certainly wouldn't fit one's bag. The Working Reference Manual has since been superseded by 22 small rule books (which could fit in one's bag if so inclined). The change to the new rule books also brought about many changes to how things were done - in fact we are now on version 2 - and we're now working very differently than we did under the Working Reference Manual. |
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2012 20:53:16 GMT
There's a path in for Monday 21st (and another for Tues 22nd). 1Q13 worked Derby-Didcot today TnT with 37's - we shall see what tomorrow brings. Last night the 3 tripcock 66's were variously at Hither Green, Bescot, and Staines (worksite) According to a TOPS list I have seen this was worked by 2 of the tripcock 66s today, 66017 & 66019. |
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Post by jacko1 on Aug 23, 2012 15:34:19 GMT
Surely non-tripcock equipped national rail train movements are simply double manned in the same way certain planned movements are allowed over NR where AWS is inoperative for some reason. At least this is the way it used to be. There have been railtours out of Marylebone via Amersham with Hastings and 25s and 20s in BR days and none of them had tripcocks. I believe the general answer to non tripcock fitted trains in traffic hours require a waiver but for this specific route is executed in practice by double manning drivers ((and maybe an appropriate LU person present)). ISTR the tours I have been on did have operating stops at Amersham. I was one of the organisers of this www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/80s/860511lc.htmand there were certainly no tripcocks on that lot just 2 BR drivers and an LU "inspector" for the want of knowing the correct LU term I know thats decades ago but I do not see any reason why that practice would have changed when it is in reality the pragmatic method that allows it all. -- Nick when i was traincrew inspector with mainline freight at acton,we used to deliver the refurb a stock derby to neasden with non tripcock 37s. the requirement was the cab was double manned plus the lul conductor driver. |
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