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Post by charleyfarley on Apr 11, 2012 10:57:38 GMT
This morning I witnessed a vicious fight in the bread aisle in Asda between two rather large African ladies. Staff had cordoned off the aisle with a member of staff stationed at each end awaiting the arrival of the police. Other than that, there was no intervention of any kind on the part of staff.
Would it be the same if two passengers on a station suddenly began a vicious fight - station staff simply awaiting the police and not intervening themselves?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2012 11:31:36 GMT
The question as you witnessed a vicious fight why did you not break it up yourself?
Or would you wait for those with correct training, equipment and authority to safely manage the situation?
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Post by charleyfarley on Apr 11, 2012 11:40:39 GMT
Odd response, Stig. Why would I intervene? I am merely a customer. I would have thought there would be people available (staff) to calm the situation rather than allowing it to continue with inconvenience to other customers and damage to goods flying off shelves.
I was asking if station staff - who might or might not be trained to calm a situation - would intervene if such an incident occurred on a station, rather than allowing it to continue until the police finally show up,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2012 12:03:26 GMT
Why would you presume that any employer would employ staff to manage a "vicious fight"? Well apart from the Police?
Employers have the legal obligation to their employees to safeguard their Health & safety (including the police).
The reason I asked if you would get involved is the same response applies to staff of any company. Many people -staff or public - get involved. Many just walk on past.
Legally LU staff like the Adsa staff don't need to get involved.
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pitdiver
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Post by pitdiver on Apr 11, 2012 12:09:34 GMT
As an ex station supervisor I can categorically state that no way would've I intervened or allowed my staff to do so. If the incident had occurred on a platform and the member of staff ended up on the track imagine the possible consequences. My prime concern as Stig says is the Health & Safety of my staff.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Apr 11, 2012 12:15:47 GMT
Distraction in shops is common cover for planned theft somewhere else in the shop.
The store manager did the right thing and should also have ensured that there were extra staff on the tills/doors. This is totally different to a fight on a LU platform and comparative circumstances cannot be drawn.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2012 12:34:30 GMT
The question was should the staff intervene. A LU platform environment creates additional risks not present in a supermarket. LU staff would take action but wouldn't necessarily intervene a direct parallel with the events that occurred at Asda.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2012 15:05:57 GMT
This morning I witnessed a vicious fight in the bread aisle in Asda between two rather large African ladies. Staff had cordoned off the aisle with a member of staff stationed at each end awaiting the arrival of the police. Other than that, there was no intervention of any kind on the part of staff. Sure they weren't selling tickets rather than waiting for police?! ;D |
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pitdiver
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Post by pitdiver on Apr 11, 2012 20:07:30 GMT
I think this discussion could get a bit heavy. The point I was trying to make is that my staff or myself would obviously take action but no way interfere. You can never tell if someone might have a needle in their hand. I was never paid to get pin stuck or even bitten. Friday/Saturday nights could sometimes be like a battleground at times and there weren't always police around or within a short distance. Forget how wonderful it might look on the TV. I spent 16 yrs on LUL a lot of the time on my own asking for penalty fares at eleven at night. Cloud cuckoo land. Me was important no one else.
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Post by alfie on Apr 11, 2012 22:34:42 GMT
If I were station staff, watching a 'vicious fight'..I wouldn't want to get involved, for fear of getting thwacked by one or even both of them (See 'THIS IS BETWEEN US!')..Just let them fight it out, don't let them involve other customers, and call the police.
Of course, if there were enough station staff, I'd suggest they at least try to drag them apart and sit them down somewhere, but not in those stations deep into zone 6, with one or maybe two members there sometimes not even all day.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 11, 2012 23:14:36 GMT
During my time on the stations at Earls Court, we always had a minimum of 10 station staff at any one time (1x supervisor, 2x ticket office, 5x station assistants and 2x 'project' station assistants). More often than not though we had many more (ie, early & late shift had 2x supervisors, ticket offices had up to 6 staff, station group duty managers were based there....etc, etc).
There were certainly times I can recall when we had more than enough manpower on hand yet we never ever dived in & split anyone up. As has been stated, LU's own staff are not formally trained to do so - unlike say door staff or Police officers - in fact LU staff are specifically trained to retreat to "a place of safety".
What actually tends to happen, if practicable, is you will see LU staff keeping to that "place of safety" whilst also ensuring that members of the public are kept a safe distance apart too.
Safety remains paramount at all times!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 4:24:30 GMT
I'm a nurse, and having been threatened with a used needle when asking a 'gentleman' to leave my unit due to causing a disturbance (read, fist fight) I would say to anyone who witnesses a fight...call the police, but don't get involved. No point getting yourself hurt, however good your intentions, you'll just leave an additional casualty to be helped when the professionals do arrive
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 18:00:06 GMT
If I were station staff, watching a 'vicious fight'..I wouldn't want to get involved, for fear of getting thwacked by one or even both of them (See 'THIS IS BETWEEN US!')..Just let them fight it out, don't let them involve other customers, and call the police. Of course, if there were enough station staff, I'd suggest they at least try to drag them apart and sit them down somewhere, but not in those stations deep into zone 6, with one or maybe two members there sometimes not even all day. But does this not depend how serious it is and who is involved, for example, if it was low life on low life then I would leave them to it. Also being station staff, even if you can handle yourself, is that the person or persons can come back looking for you. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 12, 2012 18:30:57 GMT
I'm a nurse, and having been threatened with a used needle when asking a 'gentleman' to leave my unit due to causing a disturbance (read, fist fight) I would say to anyone who witnesses a fight...call the police, but don't get involved. No point getting yourself hurt, however good your intentions, you'll just leave an additional casualty to be helped when the professionals do arrive +1 If two people are fighting, let them get on with it and discourage any have-a-go heros from trying to sort it out. A few years ago I had a situation at work (I'm a pharmacy Manager) where someone came into my Pharmacy and sat down. Moments later one of my regular clients came in and launched a verbal assault at the first person. My lasting memory of the situation is a man sat cowering in a chair with one man stood over him shouting "you're a Fantasmogorical liar, but I'm not going to have a go at you here; because the people that work here are good people and they shouldn't have to deal with our shakalakaboomboom! But you wait until you get home." They then left watched closely by the city's CCTV network. The next time the shouting man came in, he was reminded of our "respect" policy and asked to find another Pharmacy by the end of the week. On a lighter note, did you manage to figure out what this "vicious fight" was over, I thought ASDA baked bread fresh all day, or was it the last pack of Warburtons Crumpets on the shelf? Rude words removed in accordance with forum rules, one of the substitutes might well be worth a flutter on the National on Saturday though  [/local knowledge] |
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Post by charleyfarley on Apr 12, 2012 19:02:32 GMT
No, rincew1nd, no chance of figuring it out as they were yelling at each other in a language other than English. I think the location was coincidental as I was doing a big shop myself and had already seen one of them by herself shopping peacefully.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 12, 2012 19:15:09 GMT
they were yelling at each other in a language other than English. Ahhh, last baguette of the day perhaps then. |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 12, 2012 22:50:28 GMT
they were yelling at each other in a language other than English. Ahhh, last baguette of the day perhaps then. I've seen trolley rage in Blaenau. Just the same. |
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[/local knowledge]
