Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 18:49:57 GMT
Hi all, I am new to this forum. I am from Liverpool and I had a gripe to ask about door designs on the new tube trains. On older stock such as 67,72,73, A,C and D stocks, the doors are enclosed in the carriage.
Since 1992 stock, the doors are not, is there a reason for this. I only ask as I saw a tourist get his bag stuck on the outside of a 09 stock door on a busy platform at Euston SB.
I know our underground system doors in Liverpool are enclosed and work perfectly fine.
Thanks
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Mar 27, 2012 19:00:44 GMT
Hello!
Welcome to the Forum, I think there's two members that live in Liverpool and there's a few Scousers that have moved to the big city.
AIUI externally hung doors take up less room giving more space for passengers.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 19:01:56 GMT
I cant stand the exterior hung doors!
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
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Post by kabsonline on Mar 27, 2012 19:13:09 GMT
The hung doors look much better on the train!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 19:26:08 GMT
The hung doors look much better on the train! You must be joking!
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
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Post by kabsonline on Mar 27, 2012 19:42:49 GMT
I quite like them hanging on the outside. Looks modern!
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Post by vic09 on Mar 27, 2012 20:00:50 GMT
The doors on the ouside mean that the seats can be pushed back further, and there is more space inside the carridge for people to stand.I dont really agree with it to be honest, it only creates about 2 inches of extra room, bit silly if you ask me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 20:14:06 GMT
The doors on the ouside mean that the seats can be pushed back further, and there is more space inside the carridge for people to stand.I dont really agree with it to be honest, it only creates about 2 inches of extra room, bit silly if you ask me. Agreed
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Post by tecchy on Mar 27, 2012 21:01:08 GMT
The doors on the ouside mean that the seats can be pushed back further, and there is more space inside the carridge for people to stand.I dont really agree with it to be honest, it only creates about 2 inches of extra room, bit silly if you ask me. I don't understand your comment. Look at the S Stock and then the 09 Stock, they are totally different seat distance wise and they both have externally hung doors. As technologies advance there are much easier ways of doing things. Externally hung doors are far easier to maintain! A side effect is on larger stocks you can put the door control equipment above the passengers heads freeing up space below, however not on deep level tubes.
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North End
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Post by North End on Mar 27, 2012 21:20:12 GMT
The doors on the ouside mean that the seats can be pushed back further, and there is more space inside the carridge for people to stand.I dont really agree with it to be honest, it only creates about 2 inches of extra room, bit silly if you ask me. I don't understand your comment. Look at the S Stock and then the 09 Stock, they are totally different seat distance wise and they both have externally hung doors. As technologies advance there are much easier ways of doing things. Externally hung doors are far easier to maintain! A side effect is on larger stocks you can put the door control equipment above the passengers heads freeing up space below, however not on deep level tubes. I thought the main reason was the change of bodyshell construction from the 1986 stock onwards, the design of which made the usual "pockets" difficult to incorporate. Externally hung doors are not without problems or undesirable consequences - as the derailments at Camden Town, and especially Chancery Lane, demonstrated.
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Post by phillw48 on Mar 27, 2012 21:22:41 GMT
Outside hung doors also mean that the bodies are much stronger as the door pockets tended to weaken the structure. The best alternative would be plug doors but these were probably rejected on the grounds of cost. Outside hung doors are also the cheapest, certainly when it comes to repair and replacement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2012 21:35:23 GMT
I just find that the way londeners are with holding doors open, the basic door on a 72ts is the best as this sensitive edge causes problems that are unnecessary. I havnt heared of a case where someone was dragged by the old style doors. Correct me if I am wrong on this however.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Mar 27, 2012 22:57:23 GMT
+1 for North End. The body shells for the 86ts and onwards are of extruded aluminium, whereas from 56ts-83ts are from aluminium sheets welded onto a steel frame. Though the all aluminium design saves weight, the downside is pockets cannot be provided for the doors. I would have thought because of this the internal space for the passenger is actually smaller, as the doors can't exceed the overall structural gauge, yet can't telescope into the body sides either. Externally hung doors aren't modern either, being tried on the first two Gloucester conversions of Gate Stock to air doors in 1922. Plug doors were rejected for the S stock, apparently because of problems with providing a level access from the platforms. Tecchy, with the greatest respect, I doubt that external doors were adopted for any benefits they might bring, but rather because of the construction of the cars themselves. ------- Personally, though I appreciate they might save money, aesthetically I think they are very ugly. No-one looks at the 38ts and says 'Yeah, thats nice. But you know, it would look better with external doors...'. I think this, as with everything else, boils down to a question of how much in terms of style and aesthetic one is willing to sacrafice to save money. Sadly it seems the pendulum will only ever swing in one direction from now on I also wonder whether a train with open externally hung doors technically contraveins livery regulations for VIP's, as the contrasting colour of the doors remains on show all the time...
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Mar 28, 2012 10:57:59 GMT
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Post by auxsetreq on Mar 28, 2012 12:47:09 GMT
One does manage to squeeze a quart into a pint pot with externally hung doors. The interior of the 92 and 09s are far roomier than trains with doors sliding into pockets. Though with the 92 when the doors are open, they cover up the car numbers on the sides. We find the 95/6 trains are somewhat cluttered in appearance externally and less roomier inside than other similar trains. Every inch counts and externally hung doors are very very reliable with the gubbins easier to get to for maintenance. Aesthetically they don't look bad on the 92, 09s and S trains............
I saw somewhere that the EVOstuck accountant's fantasy tube will have the doors slung externally as per usual but with the mechanism in the roof, or up high. Which means when Mr Teeteewun is called out from his call point he'll have to take a pair of step ladders with him............
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 28, 2012 13:40:42 GMT
It is interesting as the Capitalstar 378 and Electrostar 376 Suburban Units have door pockets due to reliability issues?! Plug doors can be unreliable I've heard and with millions of door movements a year it would be unwise to use them on metro trains.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Mar 28, 2012 13:47:29 GMT
It is interesting as the Capitalstar 378 and Electrostar 376 Suburban Units have door pockets due to reliability issues?! Plug doors can be unreliable I've heard and with millions of door movements a year it would be unwise to use them on metro trains. The way some platforms are rammed in the peaks means they (outward openers) wouldn't stand a chance (of maintaining dwelltime)....the last outward-opening doors on the system were the Met compartment and T-stocks: mind you, you're probably building one of them too .
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 28, 2012 14:22:01 GMT
True, I read that even in the late 50s the T stock and Dreadnoughts were causing problems as the doors were swinging open if not properly shut, mainly at Island platforms.
As an aside, I have a T stock Motor car staring at me right now ;D
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Post by tecchy on Mar 28, 2012 14:48:40 GMT
The interior of the 92 and 09s are far roomier than trains with doors sliding into pockets. Though with the 92 when the doors are open, they cover up the car numbers on the sides. We find the 95/6 trains are somewhat cluttered in appearance externally and less roomier inside than other similar trains. Every inch counts and externally hung doors are very very reliable with the gubbins easier to get to for maintenance. Aesthetically they don't look bad on the 92, 09s and S trains............ I agree completely, and yes they are far easier to maintain!!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 29, 2012 0:26:21 GMT
Plug doors can be unreliable I've heard and with millions of door movements a year it would be unwise to use them on metro trains. i was reading something a couple of months back about the design of the S stock (possibly one of Piers Connor's articles?) which explicitly stated that plug doors were investigated (among other things they would improve the efficiency of the air con by making a tighter seal). They were rejected because no supplier could guarantee the reliability levels rightly demanded for LU. Anecdotally I tend to think of them as slower than sliding doors, but whether this is even true I don't know. Even if it is it might not be a limitation of the design, but a lack of need for highest speed operation.
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