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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 18:22:43 GMT
I've searched the internet for an explanation, but they all appear to say different things (many including Wikipedia not saying anything at all). This has been bugging me for a while, why is it that East Finchley has 4 platforms? And are all 4 currently in use? Thanks in advance
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kabsonline
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Post by kabsonline on Mar 1, 2012 19:26:45 GMT
2 go off to sidings I think.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 19:40:28 GMT
The centre roads go to the depot, but once served Highgate High Level and the Northern Heights, if I'm not mistaken.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 19:45:39 GMT
So trains can terminate at East Finchley and then go into the depot? And also can the centre tracks also be used by High Barnet and Kennington/Morden trains? Thanks a lot
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Post by suncloud on Mar 1, 2012 19:47:33 GMT
All the pointwork is north of the station... So the middle tracks can only be used for trains from Finchley Central to Highgate depot and vice versa...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 11:29:14 GMT
As already mentioned the two middle platforms were intended for the Northern Heights branch to Moorgate via Finsbury Park. In fact they were in use by steam hauled passenger trains, up until the point when work on the extensions took over the Barnet & Mill Hill branches. The unelectrified line beyond the depot remained to Finsbury Park for goods services and finally empty stock moves from the Northern City Branch. 38 stocks were towed from Drayton Park by Battery Locos as electrification had not been completed. East Finchley station was completely rebuilt from two platforms to four as part of the Northern Heights extensions project. Although bizarrely the station buildings at Finchley Central have been left much as there were in LNER days.
So, much of the line (with the exception of Northern City Branch and the connecting ramps to the main line & Moorgate branch via a new platform at Finsbury Park) were converted from the former LNER branch to High Barnet & Edgware (via Mill Hill East). So the two outside platforms which are used for todays Northern line trains to & from Highgate (low level) are indeed the newest alignments of the four.
A fair amount of the work had been completed before the outbreak of World War Two. However after the war, the extensions were abandoned and the planned Northern line branches to Bushey Heath, Moorgate, and Alexandra Palace never opened.
East Finchley is a listed structure.
There’s a few good books on the subject – the most recent being one produced by the LURS and sent out to members before Christmas. Another written by Jim Blake & Jonathan James in the 90’s chronicles the line and reproduced several of the original plans.
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Post by bassmike on Mar 2, 2012 11:59:40 GMT
IMHO it would be very easy to re-arrange the layout at East Finchley to allow use of the centre roads to and from the south by all trains. When EF was being rebuilt in the thirties for the new works, trains from highgate HL did use the outer platforms for a short period.(steam trains in No 1 & 4). All thats needed is a crossover just south of the platforms. This would also provide an alternate reversing point to Mill Hill east.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2012 12:23:36 GMT
I think that after the A1000 bridge the track almost immediately descends towards the Highgate tunnel. So does sufficient space remain to create a cross over without sizably altering the gradient?
Dean
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 2, 2012 13:02:03 GMT
Yes, I don't think it would be possible. The suthbound road drops sharply into the tunnel which had to be provided with air holes to reduce ear popping!
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Post by bassmike on Mar 2, 2012 21:38:37 GMT
There is room for this junction- if you look at google earth ground view you will see that all four lines are level and adjoining just south of the A1000 bridge. One of the numerouis articles on this shows a picture of a steam train leaving the station from the outside s/b/ platform, but I can.t remember which book it is at the moment will post when I have time to find it
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Post by causton on Mar 3, 2012 0:52:15 GMT
Actually it looks like there might be room to squeeze some points in... the benefits of doing it though?
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Post by bassmike on Mar 3, 2012 2:32:35 GMT
There is room to install the points, and as I said before it would provide at very little cost an alternative terminating or turnback point especially if the MHE branch was out for any reason(Dollis viaduct for instance.)
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Post by Tubeboy on Mar 3, 2012 9:34:07 GMT
Why would crossovers be needed? There are two reversing sidings just past the platforms as you leave on the Northbound.
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Post by Geoffram on Mar 3, 2012 11:39:58 GMT
I think that the reversing siding is only accessible from the inner tracks, and so doesn't get much use these days. It was built because when the Northern Heights train service was being planned, half the service from Moorgate was planned to go to Alexandra Palace, and half to High Barnet via East Finchley. In the evenings, this was to be cut back to East Finchley, because High Barnet had the original service via Camden Town. There was a crossover north of this siding to turn trains from the outer two tracks, but this was not a scheduled move as far as I know. I think that's been removed, but there is still a siding at Finchley Central to turn trains if required before you get on to the MHE branch. I would imagine that the cost of providing reversing facilities at East Finchley wouldn't justify any benefits. I was brought up in East Finchley, and I remember the thrill of hearing trains going down the centre road to the depot late at night.
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Post by Tubeboy on Mar 3, 2012 11:59:37 GMT
The outer track, definitely the Northbound one, has access to the reversing sidings. Finchley Central meanwhile has two reversing sidings, one on the North, on the Mill Hill Branch, and one South of the platforms. And dont forget a mainline shunt is available between East Finchley and Finchley Central.
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Post by bassmike on Mar 3, 2012 12:28:41 GMT
Yes but the point is to give two extra platforms which plain reversing sidings dont have. Two very good platfoms very underused.
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Post by andypurk on Mar 3, 2012 13:18:58 GMT
The outer track, definitely the Northbound one, has access to the reversing sidings. Neither the northbound nor the southbound outer tracks have access to the reversing siding north of East Finchley. This can clearly been seen on Google Maps.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 14:18:57 GMT
The outer track, definitely the Northbound one, has access to the reversing sidings. Neither the northbound nor the southbound outer tracks have access to the reversing siding north of East Finchley. This can clearly been seen on Google Maps. Channeling COLIN: www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/East%20Finchley-lef5-2.gif(courtesy of Tubeprune)
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Post by 21146 on Mar 3, 2012 15:43:19 GMT
Isn't there a suggestion to run a Mill Hill East - East Finchley shuttle which would extend into Highgate depot as a staff train working to serve the new SCC?
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Post by Tomcakes on Mar 8, 2012 21:57:08 GMT
East Finchley station was completely rebuilt from two platforms to four as part of the Northern Heights extensions project. Although bizarrely the station buildings at Finchley Central have been left much as there were in LNER days. I do remember reading - though I can't remember where - that Finchley Central was due to be rebuilt with a fourth platform where the booking hall/stairs/lift now are, but that work never started because of the war.
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Post by abe on Mar 9, 2012 12:15:34 GMT
Work actually started on the fourth platform at Finchley Central, and used to be visible at the south end of the SB platform. I'm not sure whether anything can be seen now though. Various books show the plans for the station rebuilding, including buildings on the overbridge in place of the current building beside the SB platform.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2012 14:11:34 GMT
There is room for this junction- if you look at google earth ground view you will see that all four lines are level and adjoining just south of the A1000 bridge. One of the numerouis articles on this shows a picture of a steam train leaving the station from the outside s/b/ platform, but I can.t remember which book it is at the moment will post when I have time to find it There isn't a hope in hell of installing a crossover just to the south of the A1000 Road Bridge. I took this photo in January 2012 and you can see how the NB Line falls towards the tunnel mouth immediately upon crossing the over bridge. smu.gs/yATwC4Irish Underground
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Post by bassmike on Mar 9, 2012 17:26:38 GMT
Sorry to differ but the photo is foreshortened by the lens used. If you look on google earth there is just enough room (with perhaps a minor re-alignment ) to get in a crossover just south of the bridge. You can see this from a nb train.There was more room before they dualled the road beneath(Bridge was shorter then). The sb is easier because the bridge is staggered diagonally leaving a bit longer space, and being on a downward gradient
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Post by bassmike on Mar 9, 2012 17:32:04 GMT
ps: this shows better on your picture if you look at th X3 view.
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Post by bassmike on Mar 9, 2012 17:53:21 GMT
pps!!! A small increase in the gradient from the nb tunnel mouth along with a "Thameslink Ludgate hill job" in reverse on the west single bridge span ( Raising the south end of this span slightly woud definately make the job easier at no outrageous expense.
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Post by Tomcakes on Mar 9, 2012 22:36:43 GMT
To be honest, your schemes seem a little OTT in trying to solve a problem where, really, none exists. The middle platforms aren't often used because of a quirk of history - no major deal. And any expense does become outrageous in the modern UK rail industry!
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Post by bassmike on Mar 16, 2012 14:08:12 GMT
sorry for late reply( been away).the point of my scheme was to provide an alernative if the MHE branch was closed. Bringing the centre platforms into this arrangement would provide access to the reversing siding at EF together with two platforms (ideal situation)
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Post by crusty54 on Apr 1, 2012 8:27:19 GMT
If you look closely at Google Maps you will see that the tracks south of the A1000 bridge are at different levels. Those to/from the depot remain level. The running lines are on the surface but on inclines.
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