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Post by 21146 on Jan 23, 2012 14:35:57 GMT
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Post by alex92ts on Jan 23, 2012 16:24:19 GMT
Not surprising at all. There are occasions at Loughton Station now when there is no one in the ticket office and no one by the gates. I've seen people waiting for staff to appear when they can't get through the gates.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2012 17:10:10 GMT
Scenario that happened a few weeks ago: goes to the only ticket machine with a that accepts notes, what do I see on the screen in front of me? A screen that says "closed" with a an option in the top corner to "call for assistance" (the station only appears to have one SA out and about) so along he comes and tries to get it working... he tries a few times whilst trying to answer other people's questions at the same time but he has no luck. So you have a station with one card machine and one card and coin machine but none that accept notes or a ticket office.
In the end I just went to the newsagents, but I find it a little worrying when purchasing a tube ticket at a tube station is more difficult than getting one from a shop!
De-staffing stations is a retrograde step. Mike Brown, Boris Johnson and the like keep on saying "this is the future" well if inefficiency and inconvenience is the future, then I am not impressed at all.
*Rant Over*
I’ve also noticed the new posters and inter-car barriers on the Bakerloo stock, are they ditching de-training staff at turn back point now too?
*May need to restart rant*
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2012 17:37:12 GMT
Does the installation of barriers mean the inter car doors can be used 'safely' now?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2012 0:26:34 GMT
No, you could still come to an unpleasant end. Never use the inter-car doors unless instructed to.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jan 24, 2012 10:01:01 GMT
The risk from using the interconnecting doors is the type that, generally speaking, people are the least good at judging - a low chance of anything bad happening, but if it does it's going to be very bad.
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Post by trt on Jan 24, 2012 10:17:20 GMT
Oh, right. Off thread, but I noticed that they didn't check the train at Harrow & Wealdstone last night before moving into the siding. Thought that was a bit unusual. Change of procedure is it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2012 13:05:37 GMT
London Travelwatch claim ticket office staff have not been redeployed in custimer-facing roles: Surprise surprise! (well no suprise actually because if you cut 800 staff, that's 800 people you can't place on gatelines or platforms). 650 station positions (plus 150 managers) not 800 staff. By the time LUL brought this in this time last year half the positions had fallen vacant and those left over were displaced to the reserve but I’m sure the numbers have been whittled down even further since then. (the station only appears to have one SA out and about) so along he comes and tries to get it working... he tries a few times whilst trying to answer other people's questions at the same time but he has no luck. So you have a station with one card machine and one card and coin machine but none that accept notes or a ticket office. In the end I just went to the newsagents, but I find it a little worrying when purchasing a tube ticket at a tube station is more difficult than getting one from a shop! De-staffing stations is a retrograde step. Mike Brown, Boris Johnson and the like keep on saying "this is the future" well if inefficiency and inconvenience is the future, then I am not impressed at all. If there’s a problem with a POM the only way to fix it is to get inside the ticket office, a standard CSA wouldn’t have been trained to do that, you’d need a Multi Functional or the Station Super. Oh, right. Off thread, but I noticed that they didn't check the train at Harrow & Wealdstone last night before moving into the siding. Thought that was a bit unusual. Change of procedure is it? There has been no change of procedure as far as going up sidings is concerned. Someone has to physically inspect the train to ensure that no passengers are on board and close the doors with the porter buttons, if there’s no station staff then the TOp has to do it on their own. If that delays the service then tough, if the TOp is closing up from the cab then they are risking getting themselves in deep doo doo. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2012 14:33:42 GMT
the numbers have been whittled down even further since then. If there’s a problem with a POM the only way to fix it is to get inside the ticket office, a standard CSA wouldn’t have been trained to do that, you’d need a Multi Functional or the Station Super. Theres a door with a room that goes behind the machines and he was pressing a button and comming back to see whether his efforts had worked or not. He had a blue shirt too so I assume he was an SAMF. |
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Post by ianvisits on Jan 29, 2012 18:56:30 GMT
I wonder how Travelwatch would have reacted had they visited the DLR.
No station staff at all!
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Post by Tomcakes on Jan 29, 2012 19:10:15 GMT
I was at Queens Park a couple of months ago, waiting for a train which was actually going to Harrow - about 5 or 6 trains terminated there, all were a simple "all change", lights flashed on and off, then doors closed and off to the sidings. I'd presumed procedures had changed.
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Post by su31 on Jan 29, 2012 21:45:37 GMT
Procedures have changed, to allow movement of passenger trains over shunt moves or via sidings with customers on board, in an emergency only. Theoretically, trains reversing via sidings on short-trips should still be checked and de-trained properly.
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Post by trt on Jan 29, 2012 22:00:12 GMT
Well, this weekend I've seen exactly as Tomcakes at Harrow & Wealdstone again. Flashing the lights, a quick PA, then doors close and off into the shunt, 10 minutes later, reverse direction and back to London on the other line.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 23:02:42 GMT
That's indeed how it is done on the Bakerloo now except for trains going to depot.
The shunt move is different using OSN 101 and requires specific authority
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2012 23:30:08 GMT
Its because barriers like on the 09ts have been installed either side of the step plates between cars
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 30, 2012 0:16:24 GMT
Its a sensible move. As long as passengers are protected from themselves, then this saves a lot of time and hassle. Never understood why inside barriers weren't adopted to start with.
Can't quite remember, but was this as a result of a man who fell between carriages on an Central going into Liverpool Street sidings?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 5:20:38 GMT
The “Man at Liverpool St” incident as I heard it. Train going out of service, man decides it would be quicker to jump on the train and walk through than to walk down crowded platform. Doors close with him still on board, he was going through the inter-connecting doors when the train went over the points and the jolt sent him under.
After that it was drummed into the staff how important it was to check the cars are empty before closing up. As far as I remember inter-car barriers on 92s came in well before then but they are to stop people falling between the cars from the platform rather than to prevent people getting off.
OSN 101 says that we only carry passengers over shunt signals if we’ve been specifically instructed to do so by the signaller. I don’t know what they’re doing on the Bakerloo but if it were me I'd be going back and checking that no one was on board.
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Post by 21146 on Feb 1, 2012 11:50:20 GMT
I don't understand how they get away with this on the Bakerloo.
When I first was a Guard I used to 'flash' the lights on and off when going out of service. Of course then there was no PA, but if you were lucky, the driver or station staff would close up half the train for you using the porter buttons.
All fine until one day in Tower Hill bay road when an Area Manager suddenly appeared and rounded on me, saying that if someone tripped and fell over at a point when the car lights were off, LT (as was) would be liable.
I can't see that anything has changed today, indeed EIRFs (today's Accident Reports) regularly state that an area was "clean, dry, well-lit with no tripping hazards" etc. Does a train suddenly plunged into darkness, with not even emergency lights on, fit this criteria?
I don't understand why the unions have gone along with this either, esp on the Bakerloo, which seems to have at least one or other industrial dispute on at any given time.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2012 20:16:42 GMT
I've encountered this sort of situation, at Moor Park on a saturday evening, when the staff were shut away in the office. I had to knock on their window a few times to get their attention, as my ticket wasn't working in the barriers. A bit annoying, but it would be tedious to man barriers that get very little custom at times.
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Post by pitdiver on Feb 9, 2012 20:28:52 GMT
When I worked on LUL if the barriers weren't manned they must be left in the open position. However OCC as it was then would be soon on the phone wanting to know why? The person on duty at "CR** ROOM" may have well been on their meal break. Definitely a reason to be in the office but the barriers should have been open
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Post by v52gc on Feb 10, 2012 7:30:23 GMT
When I worked on LUL if the barriers weren't manned they must be left in the open position. However OCC as it was then would be soon on the phone wanting to know why? The person on duty at "CR** ROOM" may have well been on their meal break. Definitely a reason to be in the office but the barriers should have been open I think monitoring on CCTV from station control room or the ticket office (or the window for this) counts as "manned". |
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Post by Tomcakes on Feb 10, 2012 20:21:04 GMT
If there is somebody watching the CCTV at all times I will eat my hat.
On a couple of occasions I have been at an abandoned gateline with a ticket that's being rejected, no staff to be seen, no answer from the information kiosk etc. Presumably the person supposedly watchign the CCTV was otherwise engaged.
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Post by Chris M on Feb 10, 2012 21:09:27 GMT
On a couple of occasions I have been at an abandoned gateline with a ticket that's being rejected, no staff to be seen, no answer from the information kiosk etc. Presumably the person supposedly watchign the CCTV was otherwise engaged. I've seen this as well. I suggested to the person concerned that they use the platform help point, but they chose instead to vault the barriers. |
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Post by superteacher on Feb 14, 2012 19:51:50 GMT
The “Man at Liverpool St” incident as I heard it. Train going out of service, man decides it would be quicker to jump on the train and walk through than to walk down crowded platform. Doors close with him still on board, he was going through the inter-connecting doors when the train went over the points and the jolt sent him under. After that it was drummed into the staff how important it was to check the cars are empty before closing up. As far as I remember inter-car barriers on 92s came in well before then but they are to stop people falling between the cars from the platform rather than to prevent people getting off. OSN 101 says that we only carry passengers over shunt signals if we’ve been specifically instructed to do so by the signaller. I don’t know what they’re doing on the Bakerloo but if it were me I'd be going back and checking that no one was on board. Yet they still don't check trains going round the Kennington loop. Yes, I'm aware that it is a colour light signal, but surely there is as much chance of a passenger walking through the interconnecting doors in the loop? |
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Post by trt on Feb 16, 2012 15:23:02 GMT
Changed at Harrow & Wealdstone again last night. This time I saw a member of the train cleaning crew walking through the carriages as it headed into the siding. It makes sense to pick up the cleaner on one side so they can do their job whilst in the siding and hop off the other side 10 minutes later or so, but I just hope that they are trained so as to not go through the connecting doors whilst in motion like this guy looked as he was about to do.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2012 18:31:53 GMT
trt - we have cleaners on the trains when they go up the sidings at Newbury Park and Northholt and they are told in no uncertain terms that they are not to move between cars when the train is in motion.
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Post by v52gc on Feb 16, 2012 20:30:46 GMT
Changed at Harrow & Wealdstone again last night. This time I saw a member of the train cleaning crew walking through the carriages as it headed into the siding. It makes sense to pick up the cleaner on one side so they can do their job whilst in the siding and hop off the other side 10 minutes later or so, but I just hope that they are trained so as to not go through the connecting doors whilst in motion like this guy looked as he was about to do. The trains at Terminal 5 are clean like this as well now. And I hope the same as you! |
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