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Post by melikepie on Feb 6, 2012 15:01:45 GMT
I'm not sure my question got answered on the history part
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Post by DrOne on Feb 7, 2012 7:33:26 GMT
I think the issue rests on whether the existing District service provides sufficient capacity on that section of the line. Good arguments have been put forward but IMHO capacity should be the determining factor.
If it became a regular Piccadilly stop, could the bunching problem and wide signalling intervals be remedied with the upcoming upgrade?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 9:28:08 GMT
In recent days I've seen Piccadilly trains at TGR that are not "whizzing by" at all, but actually stopped at the platform with doors closed - and that happens in both directions.
In one case as I alighted an Ealing Broadway District Line train I saw some frustrated passengers in an adjacent Picc train trying to work out how to get the doors to open, presumably so they could cross to the District.
Meanwhile on the eastbound platform where one can regularly wait 5-10 mins for a District train you do get used to seeing slow or stopped Piccs effectively queueing into Hammersmith. Frustrating for Picc passengers and waiting District users alike. The Piccs can use both platforms at Hammersmith, so why not at Turnham Green too - if that would enable queueing trains to get further forward where there is an empty stretch of track and, indeed, give an opportunity to pick up waiting passengers (plenty of whom would be changing to Picc at Hammersmith anyway).
Well that's from a passenger point of view and I'm sure there are technical reasons why this would be difficult/impossible in the current infrastructure, which I'd be interested to hear. I'm sure that suggestion would be met with concerns about confusion to passengers, but communication is the key and it already seems to be considered ok to share the District platform at Hammersmith (and Acton Town, or are the outer platforms are not considered 'district' platforms?).
I'm sure there's a potential for a bottleneck around Hammersmith - Barons Court, but if you've ever stood for ages on the District platforms between TGR and Hammersmith (inclusive) then it would seem there should be scope to get both waiting passengers and queueing trains moving through that area a little better?
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Post by v52gc on Mar 1, 2012 23:16:28 GMT
If a Pic train uses the District platforms at Hammersmith it has to use the District platforms at Turnham Green and the outer ones at Acton Town.
A Pic will only use the District platforms/lines Hammersmith/Turnham Green in times of service disruptions or as has been seen recently during engineering works.
The problem for a Pic train opening it's doors at Turnham Green when it shouldn't (or at Ravenscourt Park or Stamfod Brook) when it's on the fasts is: -Confusion for passengers on board expecting the next station to be Acton or Hammersmith (which has already been announced) -Confusion for passengers on the platform expecting District Line services only to call at the station. -The extra dwell time can slow the railway down even more depending on what's happening (affecting trains behind the stopper)
Another problem is if a driver chooses to open their doors at one of the District stations and then has door problems the controller will not be very happy as the line will be blocked.
A similar problem with running the Pic trains on the Distict tracks is if the Pic train stalls (gets stuck) it will block the District Line; I.e.: a different Line which is not good.
I agree sometimes it may seem sensible to open the doors at Turnham Green going West when blocking into Acton (as quite a few drivers do) but there is no real way of knowing what is going on ahead and more often than not the Pic makes it to Acton before an Ealing Broadway District service.
Personally I am pro stopping during times of disruption (unless it's very cold!) but with loads of announcements to help.
Hope this helps.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 22:13:03 GMT
Blocking back on the westbound from Acton Town back to Turnham Green is certainly a common sight. Is there any valid reason (note the word 'valid'!) why the station with the most platform capacity is the one from which the blocking back occurs?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2012 2:56:02 GMT
In normal running the timetable has a train in the platform and one on the home signals plus another slowing down or stopped too. When the railway is broken the Piccadilly has more reforms/destination changes made at Acton than the destruct. And person can only do so many things at one time!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Mar 4, 2012 17:05:30 GMT
Also I believe there is a large amount of padding built into the current timetable (at least on the District) such that trains are arriving significantly early and then blocking the platform waiting for time to depart.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2012 9:04:49 GMT
I see that tomorrow and Sunday (31/3 and 1/4), the Piccadilly is managing to stop all trains at Turnham Green even though the service is running up to 21 trains per hour, the normal off-peak frequency. Good to see that LU have realised that there is enough slack in the timetable to accommodate this.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Mar 30, 2012 10:16:04 GMT
I see that tomorrow and Sunday (31/3 and 1/4), the Piccadilly is managing to stop all trains at Turnham Green even though the service is running up to 21 trains per hour, the normal off-peak frequency. Good to see that LU have realised that there is enough slack in the timetable to accommodate this. The only reason the Piccadilly Line is stopping this weekend is due to no District Line service from Turnham Green to Ealing Broadway
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2012 22:22:12 GMT
The only reason the Piccadilly Line is stopping this weekend is due to no District Line service from Turnham Green to Ealing Broadway Yes, I know, but they used to limit the service to 18 tph when stopping at TG because of restricted District service.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Mar 31, 2012 1:30:09 GMT
The only reason the Piccadilly Line is stopping this weekend is due to no District Line service from Turnham Green to Ealing Broadway Yes, I know, but they used to limit the service to 18 tph when stopping at TG because of restricted District service. JOOI, are you sure that you've got that the right way round? I understood it to be that PTs stopped when it was a less than 3½ booked headway. AFAICR no WTT has had its service limited because of the PT galley note: after 'beyond Hatton Cross', before 'via T4' the PT note (from memory) balanced out a portion of the stand time needed for Enfield West/Oakwood reversers [1] [1] It's a bit late in the night and I maaaaay be thinking of Amos Groove.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2012 0:45:06 GMT
What I meant was that previously, whenever engineering work on the District caused the Picc to stop at Turnham Green, a special service was run with a maximum of 18 tph. This was consistent with the WTT which doesn't schedule stops at Turnham Green if the frequency is greater than 18 tph.
When I last analysed this in detail (WTT 45), headways on the westbound in the evenings during the PT period varied from 2½ to 4 minutes, but generally 3 or 3½. The extra time for the stop was absorbed by reduced dwell time at Acton Town and/or Northfields.
You've lost me with your reference to Oakwood reversers.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 1, 2012 11:18:02 GMT
You've lost me with your reference to Oakwood reversers. It makes more sense if you do a run-out of the moves - however, with a couple of hundred Picc. WTTs/TTNs to hand (well, if they were not in boxes) I might well have been conflating some of the fine detail!
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