Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2011 15:40:40 GMT
The only tube timetables in full are the Amersham/Chesham and Watford tube guides.
Simple question is, how do I find the Working timetables for everywhere else?
and why are they not made public?
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 24, 2011 15:45:07 GMT
The working timetables can be found by hitting foi@tube.tfl.gov.uk (Freedom of Information Act), or by using the journey planner? Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2011 18:27:19 GMT
The only tube timetables in full are the Amersham/Chesham and Watford tube guides. Simple question is, how do I find the Working timetables for everywhere else? and why are they not made public? I think it says on the Cover "For Staff Use Only"
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Post by citysig on Nov 24, 2011 22:20:44 GMT
The working timetables can be found by hitting foi@tube.tfl.gov.uk (Freedom of Information Act), or by using the journey planner? Correct me if I'm wrong. The good old FOI act. It won't always get you what you want. There are often reasons why internal documents are designed to be just that. The journey planner would be a very time consuming way of researching the whole timetable - and would not be very accurate to be honest. It also won't show empty stock moves and the like which are in the timetable. Apart from lines with less-frequent services (such as the north end of the Met) customers need only be advised that trains will run at certain frequencies. Much of the network operates as a "turn up and go" system - you arrive at a platform, and within a few minutes (or sometimes much less) a train to your destination will arrive. The timetables are there for those of us who run the railway, to enable us to maintain the service customers seek. Much as some of the information within may be very interesting to those of us who frequent here, there are those who would abuse having the full timetable. This is why they are not made freely available. I'm not being a spoilsport here - I have, in the past made certain timetable information public on here, and other members also do so within reason. However, we are not allowed to supply too much information. Once a timetable becomes out of date, they will quite often turn up in places such as ebay. Much as I'm sure the company do not condone such sales, the information is much less sensitive and therefore less of a concern.
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SE13
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2013
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Post by SE13 on Nov 25, 2011 6:08:02 GMT
Can I just add that a timetable will only show what time your transport should be there, rather than what time it will be there. There are a million and one variables conspiring against the people who control such things, a problem in one place has a knock-on to absolutely everywhere in one way or another. For example an abandoned bag of cheese and onion crisps in Edinburgh can delay a train in London several hours later.
To that end, it's better that people don't know the precise moment a train is due on LU, the British public are generally moaners as it is without adding the recent American blame and claim culture to the mix, both of which would slow the job down further, rendering the WTT inoperable.
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Post by abe on Nov 25, 2011 9:58:29 GMT
The working timetables can be found by hitting foi@tube.tfl.gov.uk (Freedom of Information Act), or by using the journey planner? Correct me if I'm wrong. I must admit that, as a taxpayer, I find it objectionable that people are using the FoI Act to obtain working timetables. Why should LUL be put to the expense of the staff time, printing, and postage to send them to people who have an interest, but who don't actually 'need' them (unlike LUL staff). Also, why are so many of the FoI requestors so rude? Many of the requests are along the lines of 'Please supply the following information ... You have 20 days to comply', followed by (when the 20 days have elapsed) 'I demand that the request be fulfilled and an internal review be held'. This all costs money which would be better spent on providing services. As a (non-transport) related example, the FCO received an FoI inquiry asking how much each Embassy had spend on Ferrero Rocher chocolates in 2010. Whilst being mildly amusing, in these times of austerity, what possible use can it be getting a civil servant to send an e-mail to 270 posts around the world and then collate the response and send it back. Sorry. Rant over.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Nov 25, 2011 10:24:58 GMT
abe is correct
The FOI Act has opened a "Pandora's Box". The cost to every taxpayer to answer completely unnecessary questions is astronomical. Many FOI questions are deemed to be "vexatious" but having had the box opened, it is politically impossible to shut it. You cannot believe the stupidity of some of the questions being asked under FOI. This is certainly an 'unintended consequence' of kow-towing to political theorists without thinking what the end result might be. Do we really need to know how many tins of spaghetti are ordered by the House of Commons catering Department every year, and whether that number represents an increase or decrease over 2005?
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 25, 2011 13:57:27 GMT
That's indeed useless. But the FoIA also is useful...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2011 10:01:45 GMT
I'm going to try anyway, despite people seeming intent on it not being a good idea...
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Nov 26, 2011 10:04:12 GMT
The timetables are information you are supposed to see. You shouldn't hear about the bribes of the evil oil corporations
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Nov 26, 2011 10:14:12 GMT
As a (non-transport) related example, the FCO received an FoI inquiry asking how much each Embassy had spend on Ferrero Rocher chocolates in 2010. Whilst I accept your serious point, I have to ask: what was the answer?
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Post by abe on Dec 2, 2011 9:54:31 GMT
As a (non-transport) related example, the FCO received an FoI inquiry asking how much each Embassy had spend on Ferrero Rocher chocolates in 2010. Whilst I accept your serious point, I have to ask: what was the answer? I have no idea. I'm just aware that the question was asked from the eye-rolling that it caused.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 13:02:08 GMT
The obvious question for the original poster is what do you want to know specifically? Is there something you want to know, or just want a copy of a WTT for a memorabilia collection?
Ask a straight question and people on here will try and give you a straight answer.
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Post by ducatisti on Dec 2, 2011 15:27:06 GMT
the problem with saying that "money could be better spent on doing [xyz]" is who makes the decision as to what falls into that category. Most of the dubiousness that goes on could be argued is part of getting oil flowing/keeping our enemies at bay etc etc.
Anyway, the act does provide for a proportionate search, so properly frivolous requests *can* be ignored as disproportionate, priovided that a proper assesment is done.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2011 18:59:41 GMT
All timetables are printed to a pre-assigned number of copies which tie in with internal LUL requirements for the line in question and the type of timetable
Never had any dealings with FOI personally, but I'm sure someone told me that any approved FOI requests of this nature would receive a single sided B&W photocopy of the timetable in question, not the glossy finished product that the requester may be hoping for !
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Post by ducatisti on Dec 3, 2011 9:19:28 GMT
As long as the information is right, there's no reason why it can't be scrawled on the back of an envelope. It's a disclosure of information, not documents...
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Post by superteacher on Dec 3, 2011 12:02:44 GMT
All timetables are printed to a pre-assigned number of copies which tie in with internal LUL requirements for the line in question and the type of timetable Never had any dealings with FOI personally, but I'm sure someone told me that any approved FOI requests of this nature would receive a single sided B&W photocopy of the timetable in question, not the glossy finished product that the requester may be hoping for ! They supply double sided photocopies. I have applied for some before, but not for every line and not just for the sake of it. I have a genuine interest in timetabling. In terms of it being a waste of money for TFL to supply timetables via FOI, it pales into insignificance at the amount of money that TFL has wasted in other areas such as providing sensitive door edges on 2009 stock, providing endless and pointless announcements at stations etc etc.
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Post by peterc on Dec 3, 2011 13:09:20 GMT
Looking at the original post as a whole did the OP actually mean WTTs in the technical sense? I suspect that what he means are simply full public timetables.
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Post by alfie on Dec 3, 2011 22:12:41 GMT
Yes, but the technical ones are just as useful, though not as portable..
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