Ken Livingstone: I'd give TfL Southeastern's metro

I would've hoped that had it happened it wasn't branded LO, be nightmarish!

Opening Finsbury Park to Moorgate at weekends would be useful at present whilst the Northern line is upgraded, but is it really needed at weekends otherwise?

Would it really be necessary to name each service? New York seems to do pretty well with just letters and numbers.

I do think London Overground do need to introduce line names, just the 'North London line', 'West London line', 'East London line and maybe somthing made up for the GOBLIN

It doesnt really have to be too geographically correct does it, look at the tube map! The NLL spans all of North London rather than just reach the most northerly point. I like the names especially the 'Premier line' as it has a historic background and Brunel would be a good idea for the SLL, but I think the NLL and WLL should stay the way they are.

This is a fascinating revelation, but one where Ken's / TfL's aspirations have never been hidden. BUT it's Da-fT that wants to keep control, and it's a little closer to Treasury control, and the TOCs wanting to keep control over their little empires.
Let's face it, it's a power game, and goes back to BR days and the 'differences' over the North London Line upgrade from the '80s. BR and then the DoT were very reluctant to improve the line, but the trade off was the land value of Broad Street, and the Broadgate development. It was one of the few Ken & Dave GLC triumphs before Maggie muscled in and abolished them.
So in the 80s and 90s all we got was the original 'Basic' cheapo DLR, and eventually the rather chaotic Jubilee extension with problems passim. Remember a miserable looking Greg Dyke in the queue for the Dome, at Stratford, New Year 1999 - 2000 ......!
But in the background various people were pushing the argument that in South London, metro style services were possible, such as in their report 'South London Metro', a study published by LTUC. Also there were the pamphlets and briefings for the 'Outer Circle', adopted by the new GLA as Orbirail, along with the aspirations for London Rail.
Overground badging as a marketing title was launched on South Eastern - ON; Overground Network - was introduced at stations on the Woolwich / Dartford lines provided that a 4TPH service was operated at least during the working day.
Having got Darling's agreement to allow the new GLA to manage and specify services as the Silverlink Metro franchise was wound up, (Merseyside similarly got Merseyrail Electrics) these routes were identified as being comparable with out-of-town services on the Met and District. The rest is part of the Modern History of London's Railways.
Out go Ken & Dave, the impetus is lost as Boris sees the be-all and end-all as 'Oysterisation', not fully understanding the ramifications of specifying a London-wide Overground network. A few services meet the GLA spec, eg the GE route to Gidea Park - Shenfield, but at the other end of the spectrum is Chiltern's minimalist suburban service within the GLA area.
The North to East London quadrant is ripe for relatively modest upgrades to bring Welwyn GG, Hertford N, Enfield, Cheshunt, Chingford, and Shenfield up to London Overground standards, with services at 10, 15 or 20 minute intervals, the specified service depending on distance from the central London terminal or time of day. Perceived rule-of-thumb is that services should not be less frequent than every 20 minutes. Half-hourly trains should not be acceptable except in a few situations, a topic discussed elsewhere in DD.
Sooner the better for many, it's getting the contractual agreement with the franchisee that's the problem, and of course Da-fT!
Keep lobbying your MP and GLA member.
Lastly on names, a plea from the locals: let's stick to the North London and East London Lines; new names are fun, but the seasoned passengers still use the established names.

Given that Boris has claimed credit for LO (as well as every other improvement launched under the previous regime) you'd think he'd be keen to expand the concept?

At least he can be proud of the 800 LU jobs lost (and one suicide at Pier Walk), with many more to go in the future.

Point noted AngelIslington. Unfortunately politics does rear its ugly head, but would make one point; during the time those who worked promoting a TfL led Outer-Circle type operation, all found cross-party support; Con, Lab, Lib-Dem and Green supported from the outset.
This was a great relief as whoever supporters talked to at City Hall, the reaction was that the basic concept was a good idea. The problems have come if the perception of slightly different priorities by a small minority of the Politicos changed the agenda. Nuff said.
As our Moderator says, this is about how National Rail franchised services within the GLA/M25 zone are best integrated into a cohesive London Rail network, and initiatives that have come and gone. The service group mentioned by erstwhile Mayor Ken were branded Kent Link under NSE. Individual lines have their own local tags, Eg: Bexleyheath, North Kent, etc.
This is not about merging everything into a massive London Overground Network, with orange, blue and white emblazoned everywhere, but a more cohesive network with some common branding, as the original ON, Overground Network, to indicate a basic service standard. Initially this was 4-tph on all lines, at least during the working day into early evening. But not necessarily late evening as I found waiting 25 minutes at Greenwhich after a very tasty meal close to Cutty Sark. The DLR was then under construction; this has transformed cross-river trips, but late trains to London Bridge are still half hourly, again commented on many times in DD.
So the problem is the perception, and complexity of NR services, particularly to those unfamiliar with the nuances and quirks of what emerged from Southern Electric (RIP), and then NSE route networks.
The Underground lines were always intended to be an 'In-town' distributor, very few ex BR radial routes act in this way. Historically in-town stations have disappeared to free up capacity for longer distance services. On the SE lines Spa Road is a good example, the site is indicated where Greenwich line tracks loop around a non-existent platform. However on the ex LBSC route the station survives at South Bermondsey, albeit a pretty grotty one!
Several other colleagues have noted, along with my own input, that most inner-suburban lines in the north and east sectors could fit the LO type model.
BUT the generic name Overground has now been used to market just one group of lines, many perceive confusion amongst 'Joe Travelling Public'. A difficult one to resolve, and TfL's new Head of Marketing from January apparently dropped the NLL, ELL etc names on the existing Overground network! Which approach is right? Her first challenge!
There seems a general acceptance that TfL specifying service levels is a good idea, whether it should be quite so prescriptive as the LOROL arrangement is another matter. Both Mayors were committed to Oyster throughout London, and hopefully a bit beyond. With South Eastern that means Oyster at least to Dartford and Sevenoaks. But what about Gravesend and Dartford Fastway buses to Blue Water Park ..... get the drift.
Lastly extension of existing LO services beyond New Cross was not on the agenda, but the Croydon and Crystal Palace services from NXG were using spare capacity on the slow lines. Loadings show this one has taken off in a big way. Passengers seem to cope with the movement of green-white trains to London Bridge, and orange-blue-white trains to Surrey Quays and the ELL, which simply offers more opportunities to go different ways - any reasonable route - thanks to Oyster and it's Travelcard predecessor.
All power to whoever wins the next Mayoral contest, as thank goodness all see the benefits of good rail services. And I now need a Coffee - cheers folks.

Mod @ 22.22 PS Watch the American Spell-check! Click the wrong box and GLA became GAL! I've had more odd ones than that, but I'm too tired to start a rant .....! It's done it AGAIN!

I think in due course this route will be very useful. It connects Moorgate-Liverpool Street (Crossrail 1, Northern, Central, Metropolitan, Circle and Hammersmith & City Lines), Old Street (Tech City UK), Essex Road (Crossrail 2), Highbury & Islington (NLL, ELL, Victoria Line), Finsbury Park (Piccadilly Line), Alexandra Palace (undervalued part of London due to its poor connections) with a range of commuter towns.

Once Crossrail 1 is up and running it suddenly makes Moorgate-Liverpool Street a very interesting station for many people along that line...

Surely they wou;ld have needed a closure order, 9and annoyed a lot of SE commuters) if they hadn't? (although with DLR connections at Lewisham, Woolwich and Greenwich, there are other ways between SE and E London now).



To what purpose? The demand for travel between, say, Wimbledon and Greenwich can't be very high. What both (particularly SW) need is better connections to the centre and the main line terminals to the north.

There is no direct tube service between Waterloo and Kings Cross or Liverpool Street. Until very recently there was not even a direct bus to Kings Cross.

It's not about travel between e.g. Wimbledon and Greenwich (which may in fact run out to be quite popular) any more than the Central line is about travel between Woodford and Hanger Lane. It's about increasing capacity from outer locations such as Wimbledon or Greenwich into the central areas.

Nor is it about connecting south of the river termini. Just like the existing LO network we're only really talking about bringing services up to Metro level, increasing capacity through different means and providing the impetus through branding and marketing, and limited new and reopened sections/stations as per Shoreditch-Dalston, WLL etc.

This obviously doesn't mean better connections than already exist to the City or West End but it would increase capacity on existing routes and possibly provide better access to the 'central' area immediately south of the river.

It could be costly to connect through LB to Waterloo of course in which case it's not really on the agenda but then again Waterloo to KXSP or Liverpool Street would be even more costly projects for sure.

Even extending the W&C from Mansion House to Liverpool Street is a costly option, unless it were just to that station.