rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 29, 2012 19:54:03 GMT
Gosh, these are a lot more "robust" than I had imagined! In my mind I had the clear plastic things I have seen on NR that you need to lift in order to access the button/handle.
It's also less clear where the alarm is now, is it the big black button, the black crescent button or somewhere else? I'm not sure how I'd manage this problem, but this solution certainly isn't the most elegant I've seen. Is it the S stock where there is a protruding surround so you cannot accidentally knock the button?
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 19:55:51 GMT
PEA numbers were sky high and causing far too many delays, thats the plain and simple reason for the removal of almost half of them on every 09 train. All PESP's should be commissioned and working now as far as i knowww
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Post by jamesb on May 30, 2012 6:28:55 GMT
Gosh, these are a lot more "robust" than I had imagined! In my mind I had the clear plastic things I have seen on NR that you need to lift in order to access the button/handle. It's also less clear where the alarm is now, is it the big black button, the black crescent button or somewhere else? I'm not sure how I'd manage this problem, but this solution certainly isn't the most elegant I've seen. Is it the S stock where there is a protruding surround so you cannot accidentally knock the button? You see I thought it was very elegant given they were starting from the original unit rather then designing the whole alarm from scratch. It does the job - it's now virtually impossible to accidentally press the button. It's very versatile and hard wearing. The plastic covers on the Electrostar trains that Southern operate are tatty and always half bent. I think most people would be able to follow the arrow and the alarm button would be revealed. There are instructions below with pictures...
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 30, 2012 7:02:02 GMT
I'm not doubting that its very clever adapting the original button. I just wonder if the idea could have been developed a littlemore? Emergency alarms are the kind of thing that should be intuitive rather than needing a sign to tell you what to do. Maybe if the sliding cover was a reasonable grade of clear polycarbonate or perhaps if the surround was red?
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2012 12:33:41 GMT
On the Underground there has been several changes in passenger emergency points, from handles to buttons in the 1970s and 80s, then back to handles in the 1990s and now back again to buttons.
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Post by v52gc on May 30, 2012 15:49:49 GMT
I'm not doubting that its very clever adapting the original button. I just wonder if the idea could have been developed a littlemore? Emergency alarms are the kind of thing that should be intuitive rather than needing a sign to tell you what to do. Maybe if the sliding cover was a reasonable grade of clear polycarbonate or perhaps if the surround was red? I agree on your last point, it's kind of lacking some red... And the two different sets of sticker instructions is a bit weird looking. But very clever none the less.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2012 20:55:14 GMT
I'm not doubting that its very clever adapting the original button. I just wonder if the idea could have been developed a littlemore? Emergency alarms are the kind of thing that should be intuitive rather than needing a sign to tell you what to do. Maybe if the sliding cover was a reasonable grade of clear polycarbonate or perhaps if the surround was red? I agree on your last point, it's kind of lacking some red... And the two different sets of sticker instructions is a bit weird looking. But very clever none the less. I want to see what happens when the frail old lady with one arthritic hand needs to use them. Don't worry, it'll stop at Walthamstow or Brixton......
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Post by jamesb on May 30, 2012 21:34:06 GMT
I agree on your last point, it's kind of lacking some red... And the two different sets of sticker instructions is a bit weird looking. But very clever none the less. I want to see what happens when the frail old lady with one arthritic hand needs to use them. Don't worry, it'll stop at Walthamstow or Brixton...... I wouldn't underestimate the abilities of frail old ladies with arthritic hands.... I have (partially) opened the cover myself... there is hardly any resistance, it slides beautifully, and as soon as you do, there is a big red button... I think a frail old lady would have no difficulty to operate it it is important that the cover isn't red , because that would make it look like sliding the cover operates the alarm and that the cover was the alarm itself... and if it was clear plastic, people might think that they had to break the plastic to get to the alarm. it's not rocket science: slide the cover (which clearly looks like a cover), and press a big red button (which clearly looks like the alarm button)... and I think the fundamental point is getting missed: it is a risk benefit balance. if the alarms are going off every 5 minutes, there is more chance that someone will faint stuck in a packed train half way out a platform... never mind the passengers in the train trapped behind... never mind the disruption... i must defend this marvellous invention!
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 30, 2012 22:45:11 GMT
How about a compromise, a clear cover with a solid black arrow? Keeping the thing that actually operates the alarm red.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 11:13:11 GMT
How about a compromise, a clear cover with a solid black arrow? Keeping the thing that actually operates the alarm red. How about going back once again to pull down handles, but have them like the original LT ones, that pivot at the bottom, not pivot in the middle and cannot be pushed in by mistake.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 11:16:30 GMT
I'm not doubting that its very clever adapting the original button. I just wonder if the idea could have been developed a littlemore? Emergency alarms are the kind of thing that should be intuitive rather than needing a sign to tell you what to do. Maybe if the sliding cover was a reasonable grade of clear polycarbonate or perhaps if the surround was red? I agree on your last point, it's kind of lacking some red... And the two different sets of sticker instructions is a bit weird looking. But very clever none the less. You are right, there is not much red on show, as the middle has a plain metal reset switch which does not help. The new Victoria line stock has some nice touches, but the PEA buttons are not satisfactory IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2012 21:09:29 GMT
I saw the latest PEA on a 09, with the off white colour cover and another sticker on how to use it, I was really shocked how inconspicuous it is. A real bad design! How did that ever pass health and safety and mobility criteria? The alarm units need a complete redesign, either with a pull handle pivoted at the bottom or the push button recessed and pointing down. A good example of an easily identifiable and usable alarm button which is tucked away to prevent accidental activation. It is about time emergency handles on Underground trains were better designed and standarised and not always changing. Why is it so difficult to get something so bacic as a passenger emergency alarm handle right?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2012 19:35:39 GMT
It looks like TFL have got it right on one of its railways - The DLR - Maybe good design principles can be extended to other lines! (Bombardier also made the DLR trains too!!).
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