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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 20:11:49 GMT
I was on 465 about 15 mins ago, diverted at last minute to Amersham because of train late off of Branch. Not cool when you've been at work all day and want to go home. The preceding Amersham train also went to Amersham. Why not divert this train to Chesham rather than leave an hour gap between chesham trains and cold commuters on the platform at Chalfont? I'm very angry and I knew this would happen with this stupid through service.
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Post by astock5000 on Oct 22, 2011 19:56:02 GMT
Why not divert this train to Chesham rather than leave an hour gap between chesham trains and cold commuters on the platform at Chalfont? Maybe because that train would still have been on the branch when the next Chesham service arrived at Chalfont? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2011 23:36:17 GMT
Then send that to amersham too and send the preceding amersham to chesham until the trains catch up with the timetable! I don't know how it works but there must be some way of doing it (shuttle)!!!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2011 7:41:31 GMT
If a train's on the branch, it can only go southwards without reversing...
If a train was late off the branch, it would have taken just as long into the branch at Chalfont...
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Post by citysig on Oct 23, 2011 18:29:49 GMT
Oh Mr Bengley, I long for the day I can offer you my seat, and can witness what we actually do - and it's not stick on the CCTV to Chalfont and have a good laugh at those turfed off the train.
We never ever take such decisions lightly, because most times we do, we have to explain our actions.
Your train was probably being followed directly by a Chiltern service and the delay to those people trying to get home has to be balanced with those on your train.
December's timetable (of which you are such a supporter I know) will hopefully make this eventuality exceedingly rare (more rare than it is now).
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Post by peterc on Oct 23, 2011 19:46:29 GMT
We all knew that but even as a layman I can see from a few seconds with the timetable that the only way to recover from a train being late off the branch is to drop a round trip by running to Amersham otherwise trains will be running to Chesham out of sequence for the rest of the day.
The problem is that there is no provision to hold a train clear of the main line while waiting for a preceeding service to clear the branch. Perfectly feasible with an extra set of points at the actual junction but definitely not cost effective.
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 23, 2011 19:47:42 GMT
How will the new timetable help with this?
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Oct 23, 2011 20:31:15 GMT
As I've said on other threads, the "Why it can't be done" brigade are always more stubborn that those who see that it can IF people were prepared to try.
Perhaps a Chesham - Ricky - Watford shuttle isn't so daft after all, perhaps with 2 x separate 4 car units > > thus giving a 30 minute sevice to Chesham. These could be A stock or Chiltern - I don't think the Chesham residents would care IF their 20 minute service became reliable because of it.
Henry T Ford said "If I'd given people what they wanted, all I would have done would have been to try and design a faster horse". It really is time to try and 'think outside the box' regarding Chesham services.
I now await lots of reasons why it can't be done, but why not try and see how it might be done? How many more occasions will there be such as we have read about here where there will be a missing train and thus an hour wait?? Guaranteed to be the fastest way > > > > to send people into their cars.
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 23, 2011 20:34:19 GMT
How can Chesham get a 20 min service? It's 10 mins each way!
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Post by andypurk on Oct 23, 2011 20:54:30 GMT
As I've said on other threads, the "Why it can't be done" brigade are always more stubborn that those who see that it can IF people were prepared to try. Perhaps a Chesham - Ricky - Watford shuttle isn't so daft after all, perhaps with 2 x separate 4 car units > > thus giving a 30 minute sevice to Chesham. These could be A stock or Chiltern - I don't think the Chesham residents would care IF their 20 minute service became reliable because of it. Henry T Ford said "If I'd given people what they wanted, all I would have done would have been to try and design a faster horse". It really is time to try and 'think outside the box' regarding Chesham services. I now await lots of reasons why it can't be done, but why not try and see how it might be done? How many more occasions will there be such as we have read about here where there will be a missing train and thus an hour wait?? Guaranteed to be the fastest way > > > > to send people into their cars. The biggest problem with this plan is that it is going to need more than 2 x 4 car units, as the time taken from Chesham to Watford (the one early morning train which does this takes 29 mins) wouldn't leave sufficient time to turn around the train at either end. Of course, delays on the Met line will still impact on any shuttle running to Watford, due to inter working with both the Aylesbury/Amersham trains and the main Watford service. As an aside, Chiltern won't have any spare trains to run the service. Any Chesham - Watford shuttle would probably be easier to provide once the Croxley link is built (and a Watford Junction to Chesham service has been proposed in the past). |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2011 21:00:16 GMT
How can Chesham get a 20 min service? It's 10 mins each way! Re-lay the track on the branch, smooth out the curves and increase the speed limit to 50...  |
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Post by thc on Oct 24, 2011 9:56:15 GMT
Oh Mr Bengley, I long for the day I can offer you my seat, and can witness what we actually do. With respect, MetControl, I think it's Peter Hendy that should be looking over his shoulder... ;D THC |
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Post by citysig on Oct 24, 2011 21:23:32 GMT
How will the new timetable help with this? Chesham trains have a little extra recovery built in - though not noticeable enough to have more people moaning about slower services. On top of this, at Watford South Junction, the Chiltern service will generally go just in front of the Chesham - rather than behind as before. What this means is, if we have periods of late-running, we can hang on to trains longer at Chalfont than we do now. Quite often a train running just 5 minutes late will either have to be diverted, or will hold up the following Chiltern. |
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Post by mcmaddog on Oct 24, 2011 21:32:30 GMT
How will the new timetable help with this? On top of this, at Watford South Junction, the Chiltern service will generally go just in front of the Chesham - rather than behind as before. What this means is, if we have periods of late-running, we can hang on to trains longer at Chalfont than we do now. Quite often a train running just 5 minutes late will either have to be diverted, or will hold up the following Chiltern. Awesome, so the Watford service will get jammed behind a Chesham held north of Moor Park by conflicts if Chiltern are late Btw metcontrol my mood about what's happening to Watford services isn't aimed at you, I'm just really not looking forward to having to wait for 30 mins (if there's a Cancellation) when the new timetable kicks in especially as there is no passenger information north of harrow |
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Post by metman on Oct 24, 2011 21:33:08 GMT
Ok, that all sounds very sensible. Thanks
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Post by citysig on Oct 24, 2011 22:58:18 GMT
Awesome, so the Watford service will get jammed behind a Chesham held north of Moor Park by conflicts if Chiltern are late Btw metcontrol my mood about what's happening to Watford services isn't aimed at you, I'm just really not looking forward to having to wait for 30 mins (if there's a Cancellation) when the new timetable kicks in especially as there is no passenger information north of harrow No the Watford will not be held behind the Chesham, which in turn is waiting for the Chiltern. From December, Chilterns will have to be on time to get the "luxury" of a clear run. The new timetable relies too heavily on pathing across Watford South Junction to be waiting around for Chilterns. Our trains will become equal to Chilterns. We're also well aware that 30-minute gaps could occur to Croxley and Watford. As usual, we will balance everything out, and do what we can to limit any such pain. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2011 23:09:06 GMT
Again this evening, train 465 diverted to Amersham. Got on at Wembley Park as always and after having a chat with the driver it turns out the late Chesham train ahead had been sent to Chesham instead. I'm sorry, but why oh WHY does the train (465) which is on time get diverted and not the late one?
This is the third refund I'm due in a week!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 8:37:16 GMT
Again this evening, train 465 diverted to Amersham. Got on at Wembley Park as always and after having a chat with the driver it turns out the late Chesham train ahead had been sent to Chesham instead. I'm sorry, but why oh WHY does the train (465) which is on time get diverted and not the late one? This is the third refund I'm due in a week! Your train was diverted as it was only about 10 minutes behind the other. Most Chesham punters would have been on the train ahead, so that goes to Chesham and 465 diverts to Amersham. Chesham seems to think it has become the centre of the universe since through trains started running all day, believe me, it isn't and it never will! ;D |
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Post by Deep Level on Oct 25, 2011 8:56:21 GMT
Never been up there myself but would it be too difficult to double track some sections for passing trains? That could double the frequency surely?
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Post by citysig on Oct 25, 2011 9:59:02 GMT
Again this evening, train 465 diverted to Amersham. Got on at Wembley Park as always and after having a chat with the driver it turns out the late Chesham train ahead had been sent to Chesham instead. I'm sorry, but why oh WHY does the train (465) which is on time get diverted and not the late one? This is the third refund I'm due in a week! We knew you would be on that train, so thought as you are so used to changing at Chalfont, we'll divert your train. It's as my colleague states. We will normally send through the first train (given that those Chesham people had been waiting longer than you would wait even with the diversion). There would have been many more angry people if we'd diverted the first train, and if we hadn't diverted any trains, you would have been stuck at Chalfont for quite some time. Some come on bengley, what would you do - and don't suggest quadrupling the line, re-instating the shuttle, or some other weird and wonderful idea. Those options were not available to us last night. I'd be very interested to know your solution... |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 10:40:48 GMT
Send the train ahead to Amersham to catch up some time and send 465 to Chesham as scheduled. It seems ridiculous me getting to the station on time only to find a train which is on time, diverted. It's a bit like my train, 465, leaving 10 minutes early. I'd miss it because I'm not out of work yet/ still walking to the station.
Luckily I had my bike with me yesterday so I went to Amersham and cycled down the hill to Chesham, only getting home 15 minutes later than usual, but that's not the point.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 10:43:37 GMT
Again this evening, train 465 diverted to Amersham. Got on at Wembley Park as always and after having a chat with the driver it turns out the late Chesham train ahead had been sent to Chesham instead. I'm sorry, but why oh WHY does the train (465) which is on time get diverted and not the late one? This is the third refund I'm due in a week! We knew you would be on that train, so thought as you are so used to changing at Chalfont, we'll divert your train. It's as my colleague states. We will normally send through the first train (given that those Chesham people had been waiting longer than you would wait even with the diversion). There would have been many more angry people if we'd diverted the first train, and if we hadn't diverted any trains, you would have been stuck at Chalfont for quite some time. Some come on bengley, what would you do - and don't suggest quadrupling the line, re-instating the shuttle, or some other weird and wonderful idea. Those options were not available to us last night. I'd be very interested to know your solution... Any more times this week and I'll be starting to think you are  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 11:11:30 GMT
I'll keep a beady eye on 465 tonight. May divert it to Watford to give me an additional option to get home ;D ;D And before anyone says anything, I am only joking |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 11:14:41 GMT
I'm not working today so I won't be on it  |
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Post by citysig on Oct 25, 2011 12:28:21 GMT
When are you working next then Seriously,whilst your suggestion may seem sensible enough - and of course suits you better - one of the golden rules is that, wherever possible, you don't divert the first train through after a delay, because everybody who has suffered the delay will be on that one. If you had been able to count the number of people wanting Chesham on both trains, you would have probably seen more on the first train. We have to serve the majority. Maybe, just maybe, if 465 had been closer to the train in front, we may have diverted the first (as everyone wouldn't be stuck on the platform for a great deal of time. I did consider it, but between the 2 Cheshams was a Chiltern and an Amersham. It was a case of it being too long a gap to leave people standing, but too short a gap to have both trains to Chesham. Rock and hard place. A location that is visited quite often in the control room |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 16:06:51 GMT
When are you working next then As we're on together all week, I'm sure we'll be able to divert it at least once more ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 16:08:04 GMT
This is the third refund I'm due in a week! At least you're getting free travel out of it ;D |
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Post by superteacher on Oct 25, 2011 16:12:26 GMT
In defence of the controllers, last night a late running train was reformed into T464 going to Chesham. So they do care about Chesham!!!!!
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Post by mcmaddog on Oct 25, 2011 22:45:21 GMT
A quick word in praise of the staffers on this thread, to see, hear and understand what goes on when problems occur is a great insight into something I'd ordinarily have no opportunity to hear. The closest would be a sorry letter and a travel voucher. So thanks so much for the detail you guys provide.
It's also such a different perspective to hear of staff who obviously care passionately whereas the typical Metro article will portray you all as work shy layabouts just looking for the next opportunity to strike.
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Post by citysig on Oct 26, 2011 0:34:12 GMT
Thanks to you both for the positive feedback. I for one am always glad to offer the true explanation of why things happen. Even though it is only this community that sees the true story of some events, at least it goes a little way to educating the masses.
We'll never get it right all of the time. Hindsight is a wonderful chap, and he's always sat in the management's pocket the next day, but quite often we have minutes and sometimes seconds to react and make far-reaching decisions.
We can fully understand why some on here (and of course elsewhere) get extremely worked-up about some aspects of our service. After all you have to pay for it, and quite often it's the difference between a relaxed journey home after a hard day, or a whole heap of more tension that is just not needed. We honestly do our best to keep things as smooth as we can.
Just as a footnote, this evening everything ran extremely smoothly, with minimal delays everywhere apart from a couple of defective trains around 2100hrs. And all the Cheshams made it there - including 465 ;D
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