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Post by mandgc on Sept 28, 2006 6:08:28 GMT
The Original 'H' Stock.
'Steam to Silver' (1970) says that at the introduction of the 'G' Stock Motors "42 of the1904/5 Motor Cars were converted to Trailers - -These converted cars were at this time designated ' H' Class."
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Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
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Post by Oracle on Sept 28, 2006 11:49:51 GMT
When was it taken? Note the what appears to be bomb damage to the buildings...so was this post-WWI or -WWII? I assume the latter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2006 13:37:32 GMT
Two small 'T' boards one after the other?
Cheers, ~ Matloughe
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Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
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Post by Oracle on Sept 28, 2006 18:10:12 GMT
I wonderede what thost "T" boards were but thought I'd be tagged an idiot if I asked! They look as though they are illuminated.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Sept 28, 2006 18:21:15 GMT
Anybody know the numbers for the pre-production 2009 cars that have been built? I can give you the car numbering scheme for the entire 09ts fleet if you want. I can also give you the scheme for 'S' Stock if you would like them too.
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Sept 28, 2006 19:19:52 GMT
Can you give them to me too?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2006 21:08:39 GMT
I can give you the car numbering scheme for the entire 09ts fleet if you want. I can also give you the scheme for 'S' Stock if you would like them too. If you don't mind I would appreciate them both. Also does anybody have the former numbers for the Standard Stock trailers used with the 1960 stock. I am missing the identities for 4906, 4907, 4908, and 4909.
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Phil
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RIP 23-Oct-2018
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Post by Phil on Sept 28, 2006 22:02:45 GMT
Also does anybody have the former numbers for the Standard Stock trailers used with the 1960 stock. I am missing the identities for 4906, 4907, 4908, and 4909. Don't say we don't try!!! List (full) is as follows: New - Old 4900 - 7079 4901 - 7469 4902 - 7112 4903 - 7457 4904 - 7144 4905 - 7467 4906 - 7147 4907 - 7454 4908 - 7126 4909 - 7165 4910 - 7153 4911 - 7188 4927 - 012229 (replaced 4908) 4929 - 012392 (replaced 4909)
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Sept 29, 2006 2:00:45 GMT
Phil,slightly wrong on the 38TS trailers,4927 replaced 4906 & 4907,4929 replaced 4908 &4909 as the Cravens went from 4 to 3 car units.BTW 3902 was also converted to a 3 car the trailer car I believe was actually 4921 if I remember rightly,I don't think there was ever a 4923 or 4925 as the project ran out of money.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2006 4:25:35 GMT
Phil,slightly wrong on the 38TS trailers,4927 replaced 4906 & 4907,4929 replaced 4908 &4909 as the Cravens went from 4 to 3 car units.BTW 3902 was also converted to a 3 car the trailer car I believe was actually 4921 if I remember rightly,I don't think there was ever a 4923 or 4925 as the project ran out of money. Four were converted, 4921, 4927, 4929 and one for the Track recording train. By the way thanks for the numbers Phil!
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
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Post by Phil on Sept 29, 2006 11:26:31 GMT
Phil,slightly wrong on the 38TS trailers,4927 replaced 4906 & 4907,4929 replaced 4908 &4909 Sorry, jsp, towerman trumps me every time! I could not work out from my sources how one trailer could replace 2 (as above) so I guessed!!! I had lost track of the 4-to-3 car conversion. As some sort of amelioration for my error, I can add that the other 2 38ts trailers earmarked for conversion were 012331 and 012366. Have a couple of pics as penance!
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Post by tubeprune on Sept 29, 2006 12:55:02 GMT
I can give you the car numbering scheme for the entire 09ts fleet if you want. I can also give you the scheme for 'S' Stock if you would like them too. Yes please
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towerman
My status is now now widower
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Post by towerman on Sept 29, 2006 20:45:13 GMT
Just as an aside,us fitters used to hate the Craven conversions,when they had the Standard Stock trailers they would quite happily sit outside in the depths of winter.When the 38TS trailers came along,the slightest suggestion of frost and the door reducing valves would ice up!!!In the end if sub zero temperatures were forecast,we had to shut them under cover overnight and then shunt them back out prior to entering service,which made them very popular with the shunters.
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Post by mandgc on Sept 30, 2006 0:45:25 GMT
1996 Tube Stock "Special Trailers"
The description 'Special Trailers" could apply to many groups of Trailers. What distinguishes these 1996 Trailers as "Special" ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2006 1:50:53 GMT
1996 Tube Stock "Special Trailers" The description 'Special Trailers" could apply to many groups of Trailers. What distinguishes these 1996 Trailers as "Special" ? I found it on this website. www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/stock/1996tubeStock/#seven-carApparently they are designated Special Trailers as to quote the website If anyone on this board knows different please let me know so I can correct this!
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Post by mandgc on Sept 30, 2006 5:25:06 GMT
Special 1996 Trailers.
I just thought that there have been many groups of Trailers that have differed from their collegues for some reason or another -( the 9 Car trains come to mind for instance) and it might be difficult in the future deciding which cars should be classified as "Special" for some reason or another.
Planning to accomodate an additional 'dummy' trailer to the Sets without re-arranging the equipment is certainly unusual and the 'Concrete Block' is a most interesting' development ! :-)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2006 3:34:24 GMT
Phil,slightly wrong on the 38TS trailers,4927 replaced 4906 & 4907,4929 replaced 4908 &4909 as the Cravens went from 4 to 3 car units.BTW 3902 was also converted to a 3 car the trailer car I believe was actually 4921 if I remember rightly,I don't think there was ever a 4923 or 4925 as the project ran out of money. Four were converted, 4921, 4927, 4929 and one for the Track recording train. By the way thanks for the numbers Phil! Took me a while to find the identity of the other two 1938 cars converted. Never thought it would take so long! 012366 was converted to 4921 while 012331 became TRC912. At one point six trailers had been earmarked for conversion. 012177 - not converted 012229 - 4927 (replaced 4906/4907) 012331 - TRC912 (replaced 4902/4903) 012392 - 4929 (replaced 4908/4909) 012406 - not converted 012408 - not converted Note that 012366 was not one originally earmarked.
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Oct 1, 2006 19:34:42 GMT
Am I right in thinking that the standard stock trailers converted for the 1960ts are (well, were) the longest surviving cars in the passenger fleet?
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Oct 1, 2006 21:09:25 GMT
I believe they were part of the 1927 build and weren't scrapped till the early 80's.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2006 22:18:03 GMT
I believe they were part of the 1927 build and weren't scrapped till the early 80's. I believe only four of them were built in 1927, the rest were from 1931.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 1, 2006 23:00:29 GMT
I can give you the car numbering scheme for the entire 09ts fleet if you want. I can also give you the scheme for 'S' Stock if you would like them too. If you don't mind I would appreciate them both. Left them in the office! I will get them for all of you in the week.
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Post by tubeprune on Oct 3, 2006 14:01:34 GMT
The metropolitan saloon car stock (excluding the Circle stock) was, according to the 'R Stock Story', classified as 'R' stock in 1940. Quite by accident, today I found a list of stock lettering drawn up by LT in 1942 and quoted in UN 327 of 1989 (my notes in brackets): H & C Stock "O" (This was Metadyne too) Metadyne "P" (1938 District "Q") Old Met Car stock "R" (was V Stock) Motor cars 2598 and 2599 "S" (with "Hustle" cars of 1919, I assume, as this was originally the S train) Electric compartment stock "T" Bogie stock (electric) "U" (was M & N Stock) MV Motor cars with old car stock "SR" (was VT Stock) Modern motor coaches with car stock "TR" Modern motor coaches with bogie stock "TU" (was W Stock) The difference between SR and TR was (I think) that the TR "modern" motor coaches were the 1932 batch with GEC equipment. They had to work together as they had a different gear ratio from the 1927 and 1929 batches.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2006 15:11:00 GMT
Interesting list.
I guess I have some work to do on the list!
I must admit that the Met stock is proving quite confusing to sort out, maybe someone some write a book to reflect all this data!
Anyway thankyou for sharing the list tubeprune!
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
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Post by Phil on Oct 3, 2006 16:01:51 GMT
maybe someone some write a book to reflect all this data! Looks like it's gonna have to be you, jsp!!!
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Post by tubeprune on Oct 4, 2006 12:38:33 GMT
Interesting list. I guess I have some work to do on the list! I must admit that the Met stock is proving quite confusing to sort out, maybe someone some write a book to reflect all this data! Anyway thankyou for sharing the list tubeprune! You're welcome. Remember that the Met. Rly train ID system was based on the traffic requirements for the timetable. This stated that a train of, say, MW stock was supposed to work a particular diagram. They then made up this from available cars around the yard. Train sets were not fixed. The designations were really to help separate the various types of traction equipment, motors and brakes as there were so many combinations.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 4, 2006 21:35:38 GMT
As promised, here is the 'S' Stock numbering scheme. I am going to have to delay posting the 09ts scheme because I have lost it! I suspect a colleague has pinched my copy so I am going to have to 'nick' it back on Friday, apologies for that.
The 8 car Mets are as follows: Train 001 = (DM)21002-(M1)22002-(M2)23002-(MS)24002/(MS)24001-(M2)23001-(M1)22001-(DM)21001 Train 002 = (DM)21004-(M1)22004-(M2)23004-(MS)24004/(MS)24003-(M2)23003-(M1)22003-(DM)21003 and so on until Train 27 which starts the M2 car de-icing units: Train 027 = (DM)21054-(M1)22054-(M2D)25054-(MS)24054/(MS)24053-(M2)23053-(M1)22053-(DM)21053 All the way through to: Train 072 = (DM)21144-(M1)22144-(M2D)25144-(MS)24144/(MS)24143-(M2)23143-(M1)22143-(DM)21143 Which means all 8 car trains have a middle digit of 0 or 1.
The 7 Car C&H/District are as follows: Train 073 = (DM)21202-(M1)22202-(M2)23202-(MS)24202/(MS)24201-(M1)22201-(DM)21201 and so on until Train 142 which, again, starts the M2 car de-icing units: Train 142 = (DM)21340-(M1)22340-(M2D)25340-(MS)24340/(MS)24339-(M1)22339-(DM)21339 All the way through to: Train 190 = (DM)21436-(M1)22436-(M2D)25436-(MS)24436/(MS)24435-(M1)22435-(DM)21435 Which means all 7 car trains have a middle digit of 2, 3, or 4.
All trains start life with even numbers as the North/West end and all odd numbers on the South/East end. This will all change of course within mere moments of hitting LU metals when they get turned for the first time!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2006 21:50:17 GMT
I understand what DM means, but M1, M2, MS? Are they NDM, UNDM? I also realize that the M2D means M2 de-ice. Also how secret is this list? I ask as would it be ok to include it in my list? As for the 09TS I have seen a cgi of 11002 so I can only guess that this is part of the scheme for these cars.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on Oct 4, 2006 21:58:14 GMT
Yes, M1 and M2 cars are non driving motor cars whilst MS is a motor car with a shunting unit. You have to remember that the 'S' stock are 100% motored axles, so they are all motor cars.
If this list was in any way confidential I would not have posted it here.
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Post by c5 on Oct 4, 2006 22:17:35 GMT
I like that numbering, it's much easier than trying to remember the A and C Stock's car numbers Bit of a techki type question! Will all cars be fitted with compressors and MAs? Ta
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2006 22:54:56 GMT
Based on the list that prjb posted I did a quick list on excel. Then I added the totals and there were 1,402 cars? Wow, is this accurate? The list I made is as follows. 21001 - 21144 DM 144 21201 - 21436 DM 236 22001 - 22144 M1 144 22201 - 22436 M1 236 23001 - 23052 M2 52 23053 - 23143 M2 odd numbers only 46 23202 - 23338 M2 even numbers only 69 24001 - 24144 MS 144 24201 - 24436 MS 236 25054 - 25144 M2D even numbers only 46 25340 - 25436 M2D even numbers only 49 Total 1,402 Edit: Have added the info to my list. www.geocities.com/jsp3970/LUSS/Sstock
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