Goblin Line

There was certainly nothing stopping it.

I have seen the trains using platform 7 at Barking to reverse, instead of platform 1 quite recently, and if they were to "go the wrong way" instead of back to Gospel Oak, could easily get to Southend.

I should have given a bit more info on how long ago I was talking about. It must have been about 50 years back.

Many memories of workings on that line in the late 1950s. The line ran on the (mandatory!) viaduct (complete, of course,with its quota of businesses in the arches) past the end of the road in which my grandparents lived between Leytonstone High Rd and Wanstead Park stations.
Apart from excursions to Southend, there were also boat trains from St Pancras to Tilbury. There was a smattering of early diesels around at the time, but the majority of trains were worked by anything that was available as long as its number began with a '4' and it was no larger than a Black 5!

This through service is not so surprising when you remember that both St Pancras to Barking and London, Tilbury & Southend lines were part of the LMS during the years of the Grouping. On the 1948 nationalistion, both were in London Midland Region but the LTS was soon moved to Eastern Region.
I have a timetable for summer 1957 showing about 10 trains on weekdays (some dated) from St Pancras or Kentish Town terminating at Southend Central. On Sundays, there was a through train from Cricklewood and another from St Albans (City). I think the regular service must have finished when the LTS was electrified.
Also of interest, in this timetable, four trains a day from the GOBLIN line did not go to Barking, but terminated in a bay platform at East Ham.
Edited to add : Trains from C2C (LTS) still use a part of the GOBLIN when they are diverted to Liverpool St.

IIRC it was 1912 - the Midland bought out the LTS while the GE was dithering...

Also as I recall, the original LTS line was from Forest Gate via Tilbury to Southend: the direct lines from Gas Factory Jn via Plaistow & Upminster came later.

The Goblin we now know only got to Gospel Oak quite recently (1980s?) - before then trains onto the T&H came from Kentish Town, and before that from Moorgate via Kentish Town (and formed the majority of Midland suburban workings, there used not to be many up the main line) - was that a wartime change?

A Thameslink service would transform this route from a radial to a cross-city. Rebuild the curve from Kentish Town, run through to South Tottenham and up to Tottenham Hale.

I was you, about 8 - 9 yo, but I have vivid memories of myself and my Grandparents catching the train from Harringay to Southend for our holidays several times in the mid 1960's. They used to catch the train (even though it was easier to catch the green line bus from our home in Palmers Green) as a treat for me as I was a train nut even then.

Alan.

Interesting thread on my pet railway! A lot of useful facts here from colleagues who know the old history better than I do. The uncertainty seems to be when through services from either the 'Tottenham & Hampstead' or beyond, stopped running regularly through to Southend. As the LT&S came into the LMS, there were various through trains from Luton or St Albans via Carlton Road Jct.

It is when exactly the through services stopped, and when the last St Pancras to Tilbury boat train ran that's my grey area in history. Some were Type 2 diesel hauled with class 24s or 26s in the early 60s.

Sunday services to / from Barking were boosted on summer Sundays, also some on Saturdays, to cope with the day-tripper market. The original batch of Cravens / Rolls Royce hydraulic DMUs (Class 112s?) ran to and from Barking, and were supplemented by the Bed-Pan 127s. Passengers changed to 'Sarfend' trains, after electrification to the 302 EMUs, which at one stage had 'mile-a-minute' timings between Benfleet and Barking, or on the Leigh on Sea - Upminster trains.

Gospel Oak indeed became the western terminus from May 1981 as the infrastructure changes for the Bed-Pan electrification meant that the Barking DMU could not sit in the platform for an extended layover when the daytime service was only hourly.

Just a few days ago, Britannia operated a steam special from Southend, and back in 1994, to mark the 100th anniversary of the through service, BGOLUG worked with Waltham Forest to run a special to promote the line, two 2-car 117s (no loos!).

The GOBLIN tag is a little misused as it stood for Gospel Oak Barking Line Improvement Now Campaign, launched at Walthamstow Town Hall 15 July 1993. Thanks to the energies of LBWF and LB Haringey, the GO-B LAG, Local Authority Group worked to press for improvements to stations, and in the run up to privatisation, improvements to the elderly 117 DMUs, which operated GO-B and the restored West London line from 1994 to 1997 when a couple of 313s were squeezed out of the fleet.

Out of this steady, but at times chequered progress, the Outer Circle campaign was promoted by the local T2000 and RDS groups. Sadly the emergent CBT and Railfuture groups don't have the same energy for developing these services.

Someone commented on the practicality of a Thameslink service to the Lea Valley restoring the Tottenham chord at Kentish Town. This was a serious proposition in the 90s, as part of the access strategy for RUCATSE, a report on airport capacity and access when Steve Norris was Transport Minister. Needless to say it was all shelved. More money wasted! (Am I a cynic? Mais non!)

The pilot scheme D5300s (later class 26) would be unlikely performers on the Midland lines, beimg based at Finsbury Park, but the later BRCW Type 2s (class 27) were originally based at Cricklewood and I have seen a photo of one of these on a Tilbury boat train.


The Class 112 was the mechanical tranmsmission variant, the hydraulics were Class 113. Both types spent some time on the St pamcras lines befofre being sent to Lancashifre and later beimng withdrawn. The two types could be readily told apart because the 113s had a 4-character headcode and destination blind in a box above the cab windows, whilst the 112s had the original Cravens design (shared with class 105) with a 2 character headcode below the windows.

Although they had hydraulic transmission, the class 113s (and 127s) had "blue star" coupling codes meaning they were compatible with most other dmus (except the "Lea Valley" class 125s and the pre-Modernisation Plan types) . If I've understood it right, a 113 or 127 had a controller with a normal gearshift, allowing the driver to control a mechanical dmu from a hydraulic cab, the hydraulic transmission being arranged not to respond to the gearchange commands from such a cab (or from a mechanical unit if that was leading). There was an incident in 1968 when a driver forgot there was a mechanical unit in his train and drove it in hydraulic mode (effectively running the mechanical set in top gear throughout, which did serioous damage to the gears). This which led to the separation of the types, class 127 getting its own coupling code (which it would no doubt have shared with class 113 had that class not all been withdrawn (together with Class 112) shortly beforehand.

Red Triangle - the second use of that symbol as the first eight Derby Lightweight units, for West Workshire, used the same symbol. There was no compatibility between these units (withdrawn as non-standrd in 1964) and the 127s, it's just that the symbol was recycled.
Orange star was the "Lea valley" units (Class 125), later used on GN suburban duties.
Yellow diamond was the pre-modernisation plan Derby and Metro Cammel units numbered in the 79xxx series, plus the three Cravens parcels units (55997-55999) built to work with them. The parcels units lasted long enough to get a TOPs class - 129.
White Circle was the early Inter City units, originally for the Edinburgh-Glasgow service, including a second batch, (built post- Plan) which became class 126.

The black triangle showed which end of the unit had the space for parcels when that traffic was carried.

Thanks norbitonflyer for confirming the background with those Cravens DMUs 112s and 113s. I too was aware of the problems with control between the hydraulic and mechanical ones. Was a 113 a single engined version of a 127, and the 112 a Cravens version of a MetCam 111. (They were nice DMUs, all on the NER!) The Cravens sets just rattled! For those a bit bemused by this, these DMUs had some rather chunky Rolls Royce engines under the floor.
I met both 112s and 113s on the East Lancs Line, where it seemed that Accrington drivers coped with the vicissitudes of driving both types together better than their colleagues down here! I made some regular trips from Preston to Todd Lane Jct, for Lostock Hall, as some friends and I were making a little investment in one Flying Pig 43106, a bit far from home for a DD column. However the same group did go on to purchase from Mr Woodham an ex Plaistow and Shoeburyness Standard 4 80079, and that does qualify for a local connection!
By the time I got here all were gone and ordinary ex-western 116s DMUs had been drafted in. Ben is right, the 127s had a red triangle code, the 125s again a bit different were given orange star. They were nippy and could accelerate almost as fast as an emu.
I shall be intrigued to see if it is possible to operate 172s with 168s? Same coupling, different transmissions!

The 112s and 113s both had a single 238 hp Rolls Royce engine similar to those fitted in pairs in the class 125 and 127. (Class 115, visually similar to class 127, had Albion engines of similar power, as did classes 114 and 124 (Trans Pennine).

Classes 110 and 111 also had RR engines, but 6 cylinder instead of eight, and therefore of only 180hp.

I don't think two eight cylinder engines could be fitted under a short frame, hence the use of the 6cyl variant on c;lasses 110,111 and the use of the power twin arrangement (one engine in each car) on classes 112 and 113. Classes 125 and 127 were long frame units.

The first six white circle 79xxx Inter City units were indeed allocated to the Western Region for Birmingham- Swansea services, but four of them were actually delivered ("on loan") to the Scottish Region, where they stayed. The other two joined them two years later. Three of the four power cars from these two units, plus two from the first true ScR set, were later exported to Liberia!

The later Class 123 units for the Western had standard blue square coupling (and stylish wrap round windscreens) .

The black triangle on SR 2 and 3 car units was indeed to show that the luggage compartment was at the front. 4-car sets and longer had a luggage compartment at each end and the rear one would be used, so the black triangle was not applied as the guard would never be in the lead vehicle in that case.
Obviously if a 2 or 3- car set was the lead unit in a longer train the black triangle could be ignored as the guard would normally ride in the middle or rearmost unit.