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Post by 1018509 on Aug 7, 2011 0:50:24 GMT
Ron Fisher has some excellent pictures on Flickr among which is an LUL train which looks like a Standard stock without the hump in the sole bar over the leading truck and no equipment compartment behind the driver's cab. Conversely it also looks like a flat fronted 1938 stock without the expected cab roof curvature.
Is this 1935 stock?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 7, 2011 1:13:33 GMT
Ron Fisher has some excellent pictures on Flickr among which is an LUL train which looks like a Standard stock without the hump in the sole bar over the leading truck and no equipment compartment behind the driver's cab. Conversely it also looks like a flat fronted 1938 stock without the expected cab roof curvature. Is this 1935 stock? Any chance of an url? I tend to get waylaid by Ron's pictures of the FR..
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Post by 1018509 on Aug 7, 2011 1:36:21 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2011 2:33:16 GMT
It's very old stock: note the absence of a sliding door at the trailing end. I think it is a control trailer: a car with driving controls but no motors.
It is certainly not 35TS, which was very similar to 38TS except that most of the driving cars had streamlined ends.
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Post by 1018509 on Aug 7, 2011 3:56:58 GMT
Don't think it's a control trailer as it has positive shoebeams.
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Post by t697 on Aug 7, 2011 7:08:23 GMT
Don't think it's a control trailer as it has positive shoebeams. Could just be a beam to carry the tripcock. Doesn't seem to be one at the other bogie.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2011 7:34:23 GMT
'Underground Train File' tells that 5304 was originally 1814, one of 40 Hampstead tube additional stock & CLR air door conversion covers control trailers built by Metropolitan Carriage in 1925
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 7, 2011 7:58:37 GMT
Tube stock control trailers were allocated 5xxx numbers.
The non-streamlined 35ts stock looked very similar to 38ts, right down to the leaf-shaped ventilator. The easiest way to distinguish them is the shape of the cab doors.
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metman
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Post by metman on Aug 7, 2011 9:01:55 GMT
Definately a control trailer. At the time the only line where these were used in their own right. The formation was M-T-T-CT + CT-M. The off peak formation was only CT-M. There is a great You tube video of these in action......
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 7, 2011 9:32:15 GMT
Interesting to note that the Drayton park statiokn nameboard was not on a roundel but the Metropolitan Railway style diamond - thirty years after the Met (and with it the NCL) became part of LT. Makes the present (NSE) colour scheme on most NCL stations seem quite up to date, despite two subsequent changes of operator.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2011 6:58:00 GMT
Tube stock control trailers were allocated 5xxx numbers. The non-streamlined 35ts stock looked very similar to 38ts, right down to the leaf-shaped ventilator. The easiest way to distinguish them is the shape of the cab doors. Also the 35TS had square marker lights rather than the circular ones used on 38TS.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 8, 2011 8:37:23 GMT
Tube stock control trailers were allocated 5xxx numbers. The non-streamlined 35ts stock looked very similar to 38ts, right down to the leaf-shaped ventilator. The easiest way to distinguish them is the shape of the cab doors. Also the 35TS had square marker lights rather than the circular ones used on 38TS. The side window spacing was also different - on the 35TS (both streamlined and flat fronted) there were three windows in each end bay and four in the middle bay, whereas on the 38TS each bay had four windows. To expand on my previous answer, the intention had been that the 35TS cabs would be used as guards positions, and the cab doors were extended into the roof (like the passenger doors) to allow a guard to stand up in the doorway.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 8, 2011 10:45:26 GMT
Interesting, not heard this before, but then again there isn't much info freely available out there for the 35ts. Why the change of plan?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 8, 2011 11:51:32 GMT
Interesting, not heard this before, but then again there isn't much info freely available out there for the 35ts. Why the change of plan? According to Brian Hardy's "Underground Train File", "because the cabs also served as the guards position, (at the opposite end of the train with controls on the back wall) the cab doors extended up into the curve of the roof on all 24 cars, being hinged at the back" That's all I know, but I assume the 1938 stock reverted to the guard riding at the leading end of the rear car (or the seventh car in a nine-car formation) becuase the station tunnels on the Northern Line were shorter than the trains. More details from Hardy's book All twelve 1935-stock units were stored in 1940. The 18 streamlined cars 10000-10008, 11000-11008, were converted to trailers 012477-494 in the early fifties, losing their distinctive cabs but remaining distinguishable from 1938 stock trailers by the 3-4-3 side window arrangement. The six flat fronted cars 10009-10011, 11009-11011 were modified by replacing their Wedgelock couplers with Ward couplers to allow emergency coupling with the Standard (pre-1938) stock which they would work alongside on the Central Line, and guards controls removed from the cabs and fitted (on D end cars only) in the conventional position. They also had compressors fitted to the D end cars so that each unit had two - necessary for working as two car trains on the Central Line shuttles, and the BTH control equipment from three of the streamlined units was used to replace the original MV equipment (the four 1935 stock trains - each of three two car units - each had a different type of control equipment for evaluation purposes). Between 1954 and 1957 these three units returned to the Piccadilly Line for use on the Aldwych shuttle. During that period Car 11010 needed repairs to the cab after a buffer stop over-run, those repairs using 1938 stock components which altered its appearance from the front. Two of the units then returned to the Central Line to operate the newly-electrified Ongar shuttle, the third being used as a test bed for regenerative braking systems. One other difference - the train number on flat-fronted 1935 stock was displayed in the offside cab window, instead of below the window in the front door as on 1938 stock. The destination panel was below the offside cab window (aabove the marker lights) in both types, but had one line in the 1935 stock and three in the 1938 stock (primarily to allow a "via" line on Northern Line trains) In the streamliners the train number was displayed in duplicate, in the panels between the cab windows and the drivers side doors, and the destination panel and marker lights were centrally positioned on the cab front)
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Aug 8, 2011 13:57:20 GMT
Didn't the 1935 Stock have square marker lights and 1938 Stock round lights?
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