Privatisation and unions and wages

Ooohhh!! I could go on a big rant here about bus drivers wages, but I can sum it up quite nicely - Poor!

It's quite true that train drivers and bus drivers were paid a fairly similar wage at one time of day, however it seems that only carrying up to 100 pax at a time plus hundreds of pounds in cash doesn't merit the money of a train driver with rails to guide them, and a distinct lack of traffic, and mindless car drivers pulling out in front of them.

One thing that really bites me is the variation in bus drivers wages. Lincoln and Grimsby depots, both run by Slavecoach, and have buses running from one terminus to the next have different wage structures. The Grimsby driver running to Lincoln and back is paid around £5 an hour more than the Lincoln driver running the opposite way. Work that one out!

Without overtime, a Lincoln driver can expect a top line of around £16k, his colleague at Grimsby can expect a top line of around £23k, your train driver can attract upwards of £40k.

The Unions mean naff all because all the various companies were different companies until the like of First, Arriva and Stagecoach came along and amalgamated them all, so most depots have two, three and maybe four different Unions all working against each other rather than together, management are wetting themselves laughing and getting away with murder because the Unions are almost powerless to stop them. The turnover of staff is something else, in the last two years at Lincoln depot alone, over 50% of the staff have been sacked for disciplinary reasons - You can't tell me that 80 drivers a year are constantly breaking the rules of the road. I've seen one driver sacked for phoning his wife (from the estate terminus, engine off) while standing on the step - Rules say that he can't do that, it's non negotiable, and we was sacked outright with no right of appeal. I was given a written warning for getting onto my bus after the five minute cut off point before departure (I was officially timed at 48 seconds late) I've seen people sacked for nipping off the bus to have a pee (Should have found an LD - You can't ever find them because they are sat on their backsides doing eff all apart from boosting the sales of the coffee machine) and so it goes on. I think I could write a book about the trivial reasons for the sackings/warnings, however in the meantime, the Unions squabble among themselves, none of the real issues are dealt with, and wages remain almost static.

Thanks very much for your replies everyone.

I think bus companies are, generally, done on a depot-to-depot basis. For instance, at Doncaster depot they will pay less (it's an area with high unemployment) whereas in an area with less unemployment and higher wages they'll pay more. Like fares, as much as they can get away with.

There are plenty of companies where a driver can start on Monday at 7am, be given a map and a cash tray and told "There's your bus, off you go!"!! It's far easier to replace a bus driver than it is a train driver.

I want to be a bus driver, but have no licence.. doh ;D ;D ;D

Could you still do so on an Automatic only licence?

No, I meant if I have a licence only for driving Automatics, is that still accepted or would they want you to be able to drive both....

Unfortunately bus drivers are their own worst enemies, blackmailed into cutting corners to run services, foregoing checks etc and carrying a lot of responsibility at the risk of their own driving licence!

Thus the bus companies have the whip hand to a degree but perhaps not so much as they did because most of them are reliant on contract services for the additional revenue that keep them in profit and that has been squeezed in recent years. Many drivers would perhaps be better offer getting out of the game altogether and doing something else instead. No-one should have to work overtime to make a reasonable living but many of the bus drivers that I know work overtime to make ends meet.

As for distinction between train drivers and bus drivers the D&A is neither here not there, the rules should be the same and zero tolerance is right, that should mean that anyone doing a 6 day week can never drink at all! As for the differences in duty LU motormen do tend to be paid for what they know rather than what they actually do and there is nothing wrong with that as long as they can perform properly in all scenarios.

LU rules are not difficult to learn and to understand unless one is lazy, they are logical and common sense although in recent years the idea of spelling out the role of each individual has made them more difficult for some to appreciate. As in all things abiding by and using the rules is not as difficult as remembering them might be. I don't believe that knowing the rules of the railway should be seen as more difficult than knowing the rules of the road which strangely enough so many car drivers don't seem to know at all these days! Of course I am biassed having held a full driving licence for 41 years and having worked on the railway for a little over 28 years.

I actually believe that bus drivers are underpaid and that LUL drivers are paid a reasonable wage. I did think that onetime LRCC bus drivers were in the RMT so I do wonder why Bob Crow can't do for them what he has done for LUL operating staff!

im 30 so im ok

Really?

I've taken my bus and car tests when wearing glasses (but not my original bike test) and it's not on my licence that I need them.

I can't see any reason why you can't wear glasses through the instruction stage, take your test with them, and have your licence marked with the need to wear them. AIUI, if you get pulled for something, and you aren't wearing them when your licence says you must will land you in Court, but similarly, how can they prove you need them?

I'm writing this without my glasses on, and I'm doing just fine, it's a bit blurry, but nothing of great concern - That said, if I went outside, the numberplate of the car over the road would be impossible. I don't wear them full time, nor feel the need to, but there are times when I have no option, yet my (now lack of) driving licence don't reflect this.

railtechnician
I think your right. The rules are logical and not hard to learn. But that doesn't explain why you can be driving a bus in 4 weeks but 6 months for tube and 9 to 18 months for train drivers ? Also why is there an aptitude for train drivers? With the bus you can take the test as many times as you want but with trains it's over if you fail twice!

Regarding drivers wages - whilst there is a variation, it seems easy enough to get 40k train driving anywhere in the country. Even the best paying London bus driving jobs wont get near what a train driver at the worst paying TOC gets. (edit : London Bendybus drivers get close on £18 an hour but arent paid sign on to sign off. Working week maybe 39 hours or more actual driving )

Final thought

Tram drivers. Surely they have a long training course and complex rules, yet Metrolink for example only pay 23k?

If this is true, I'd be interested to see it tested in court against disability discrimination legislation. The DDA requires that reasonable adjustments be made to enable those with a disability to have the same access to employment as those without. IANAL but allowing the wearing of glasses would seem to me to be a very reasonable adjustment.

edit:
Another thought has just occurred to me - given the need for glasses generally increases with age, a greater proportion of older people wear glasses than younger people. Disallowing those wearing glasses from getting a PCV license might therefore be considered passive age discrimination. Any legal test would indeed be interesting.