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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 13:29:44 GMT
I note many LO stations have now got DLR-style Compulsory Ticket Areas (CTAs) marked out by a red line. - over which you should not cross without a valid ticket or oystercard. However one or two complications immediateley strike me ... Anerley. The ticket machines are within the CTA. So how does one purchase a ticket from the machine without first entering the CTA without a valid ticket? Kensington Olympia. The oystercard reader on the southbound platform is well within the CTA, so this means you have to enter the CTA before you have a chance to touch-in. Now, the obvious question is are people going to be issued Penalty Fares at those stations when traversing the CTA en-route to validate their card or purchase a ticket?  |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 20:09:18 GMT
At Harrow & Wealdstone, one of the ticket windows in the main (Wealdstone High Street) entrance is behind the gateline. Quite often when I need to use it (usually fairly early on a Saturday or Sunday morning) it's the only one open.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2011 22:03:32 GMT
They didnt think it through did they? Lol
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Post by andypurk on May 29, 2011 22:47:12 GMT
At Harrow & Wealdstone, one of the ticket windows in the main (Wealdstone High Street) entrance is behind the gateline. Quite often when I need to use it (usually fairly early on a Saturday or Sunday morning) it's the only one open. At times when I've been through and this is the only window open, then either the gateline has also been left open or someone has been on the gateline to let passengers through to buy a ticket at the window. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2011 16:29:21 GMT
They didnt think it through did they? Lol The main problem at H&W is the relative positions of the booking office and the stairs to the footbridge, and the fact that it's a listed building. A better solution might have been to have the main gateline on the bridge (possibly requiring the coffee stall to be shifted) and an extra line in the passage to platform 6. |
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Post by mrjrt on May 30, 2011 17:37:10 GMT
I think there are a couple of things that could be done about H&W.
First up, building a tasteful extension northwards where the cycle racks are, and having the ticket office and gateline within that, leaving the current building open. It'd be a shame to stop using the current booking windows, but if they're all listed then they can't be moved.
Secondly, I'd like to see platform 7 brought back into use, turning platform 6 into a fast through line. This severs the step-free access to platform 6 though, and with it the lifts, so I'd like to see a lift fitted where the coffee shop is, or failing that, in the middle of the steps where the passage way currently is.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2011 21:37:49 GMT
Kensington Olympia. The oystercard reader on the southbound platform is well within the CTA, so this means you have to enter the CTA before you have a chance to touch-in. Now, the obvious question is are people going to be issued Penalty Fares at those stations when traversing the CTA en-route to validate their card or purchase a ticket? I just had this mental image of passengers running the gauntlet of angry revenue protection inspectors as they desperately sprint towards the yellow reader. ;D |
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Post by andypurk on May 30, 2011 22:41:39 GMT
I think there are a couple of things that could be done about H&W. First up, building a tasteful extension northwards where the cycle racks are, and having the ticket office and gateline within that, leaving the current building open. It'd be a shame to stop using the current booking windows, but if they're all listed then they can't be moved. Secondly, I'd like to see platform 7 brought back into use, turning platform 6 into a fast through line. This severs the step-free access to platform 6 though, and with it the lifts, so I'd like to see a lift fitted where the coffee shop is, or failing that, in the middle of the steps where the passage way currently is. Reinstating the branch platform (7) would be expensive for little gain, unless you also lay a much longer loop line for it. At the moment, peak capacity is gained by alternating stops at Harrow and Bushey (and similarly further north). Also the coffee shop sits above the track bed so there isn't room for a lift as well (you can see this if you take the level access to platform 6). As nearly daily user of the station, the best solution would really to be to add another exit from 'The Bridge' at the southern end of the station (this would also cut my walking time to the platforms  ), rather than trying to 'fix' the existing station buildings. |
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Post by mrjrt on May 31, 2011 2:35:38 GMT
Reinstating the branch platform (7) would be expensive for little gain, unless you also lay a much longer loop line for it. At the moment, peak capacity is gained by alternating stops at Harrow and Bushey (and similarly further north). Also the coffee shop sits above the track bed so there isn't room for a lift as well (you can see this if you take the level access to platform 6). As nearly daily user of the station, the best solution would really to be to add another exit from 'The Bridge' at the southern end of the station (this would also cut my walking time to the platforms ), rather than trying to 'fix' the existing station buildings. Ah, been a fair while since I stopped travelling daily from H&W by switching to Bushey, couldn't remember if the coffee shop was on the bridge or the corner of the building. Settles the decison then, the lifts would have to be in the stairwell. As for bringing platform 7 back into use, the loop was implied. There's ample trackbed south of the station for the trains to get up to speed, and more than ample north of it to get them out of the way. The alternating calls at Bushey/Harrow were always a PIT for me, actually, as they limit the service to two very busy stations during the peak. In truth, the idea mainly sprung to mind a from a safety point of view. Harrow & Wealdstone's platform 6 used to get very overloaded at times, and passengers do get surprised by fast trains passing through at line speed (as they do), very, very, quickly. Moving the stopping services to platform 7 would improve things dramatically, and you could go even further and fence it off if so desired. If the line through platform 6 was made bidirectional, then you could pass a stopped train at platform 5 or 7, which might add a path or two on a busy route. |
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Post by andypurk on May 31, 2011 22:58:27 GMT
Reinstating the branch platform (7) would be expensive for little gain, unless you also lay a much longer loop line for it. At the moment, peak capacity is gained by alternating stops at Harrow and Bushey (and similarly further north). Also the coffee shop sits above the track bed so there isn't room for a lift as well (you can see this if you take the level access to platform 6). As nearly daily user of the station, the best solution would really to be to add another exit from 'The Bridge' at the southern end of the station (this would also cut my walking time to the platforms ), rather than trying to 'fix' the existing station buildings. Ah, been a fair while since I stopped travelling daily from H&W by switching to Bushey, couldn't remember if the coffee shop was on the bridge or the corner of the building. Settles the decison then, the lifts would have to be in the stairwell. As for bringing platform 7 back into use, the loop was implied. There's ample trackbed south of the station for the trains to get up to speed, and more than ample north of it to get them out of the way. The alternating calls at Bushey/Harrow were always a PIT for me, actually, as they limit the service to two very busy stations during the peak. Unfortunately a long loop wouldn't solve the 'problem' of the alternating calls as the reason behind them is to even out the times between Euston and Watford Junction (and out as far as Tring and Milton Keynes). Once you start trying to mix fast and slow services, with overtaking, the reliability will suffer I've certainly never seen platform 6 dangerously overcrowded and the fast services through platform 6 are quite rare in the peaks. The platform is wider than most on the line, although things would be helped if passengers didn't all want to crowd to the front of the trains. Unless Watford Junction is sorted out in a similar fashion and a more frequent Watford Junction - Euston peak shuttle is run, then possible extra paths at Harrow won't really help. |
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Post by dmncf on Jun 12, 2011 18:21:34 GMT
Are these Compulsory Ticket Areas new, or are they existing ones that are simply being repainted so they're more clearly marked?
How do Compulsory Ticket Areas relate to Penalty Fares? For example can one be Penalty Fare'd if one boards at a station which is not a Compulsory Ticket Area?
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Post by causton on Jun 12, 2011 19:53:41 GMT
AFAIK a Compulsory Ticket Area is just an area you have to have a ticket in, so if you are caught in that area without a ticket you are liable to a fine/prosecution. All trains (within PF zones) are CTAs, for example, but some stations are CTAs which just means if you are standing on the platform you can be fined for not having a ticket. If the station is not a CTA you have to be on the train first to get a PF/prosecution.
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Post by overground on Jun 29, 2011 20:02:47 GMT
I note many LO stations have now got DLR-style Compulsory Ticket Areas (CTAs) marked out by a red line. - over which you should not cross without a valid ticket or oystercard. However one or two complications immediateley strike me ... Anerley. The ticket machines are within the CTA. So how does one purchase a ticket from the machine without first entering the CTA without a valid ticket? RE: Anerley. I believe that if it is your intention to purchase a ticket, so long as that is the first thing you do on crossing the red line, you aren't breaking any specific rules. It is also presumed that the majority of customers using the station have Oyster, and therefore will (most probably) touch-in.  |
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Post by Tomcakes on Jun 29, 2011 21:51:52 GMT
If the station is not a CTA you have to be on the train first to get a PF/prosecution. AND you have had to board at a station without a ticket office, or machine which sells the ticket you need/ takes cash, in which case you are entitled to buy the ticket from the guard at the same price. Presumably the same applies in these 'CTAs'? What about TOCs which allow purchase of all tickets on board e.g. GC - could a passenger going to catch one of their trains be fined for being on the platform without a ticket, even though they're about to buy one? |
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), rather than trying to 'fix' the existing station buildings.
