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Post by dmncf on May 17, 2011 19:30:36 GMT
Are London Overground trains from Euston to Watford Junction staffed only by a driver? If so, is this recent or were the old Class 313 units also staffed only by a driver?
I have used this line on many occasions, but I'm still not sure whether there are guards on the trains, or just off duty staff travelling in the cabs.
Are the East London Line trains staffed only by a driver? Can trains on the Gospel Oak - Barking Line, North London Line and West London Line be operated in this manner, including the Southern trains?
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Post by superteacher on May 17, 2011 19:34:59 GMT
Watford line is OPO, and was when the class 313's were running too.
The ELL is also OPO.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 20:15:48 GMT
The Watford to Euston DC services have been DOO since 1988.
In response to the can the other lines be operated this way. The answer is yes they can al trains built since the 1980s are extensively made with DOO in mind.
That is why driver is king!
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 20:49:37 GMT
OPO = tube. DOO = train.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 17, 2011 23:37:10 GMT
OPO = One Person Operation = London Underground's term DOO = Driver Only Operation = National Rail's term (presumably inherited from British Rail)
They're essentially the same thing though. The difference may be due to the fact that the person in the cab at the front of the train is a "Driver" on National Rail trains but a "Train Operator" on LU ones.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 12:56:03 GMT
They're essentially the same thing though. The difference may be due to the fact that the person in the cab at the front of the train is a "Driver" on National Rail trains but a "Train Operator" on LU ones. Maybe NR will also change once ATO starts to appear on the network.
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Post by Tubeboy on May 18, 2011 13:35:33 GMT
In the Middleton Press book about the St Albans Abbey line, it says trains are crewed by three staff. Driver, guard and ....? Anyone know who the third member of staff would be? Is it something to do with setting points?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 14:13:43 GMT
In the Middleton Press book about the St Albans Abbey line, it says trains are crewed by three staff. Driver, guard and ....? Anyone know who the third member of staff would be? Is it something to do with setting points? The other person would probably have been an Assistant Ticket Examiner (ATE). The reason being is that the Guard would concentrate on doing the safety side of things and the ATE doing the revenue. It would only really happen when the trains are very busy and the Guard wouldnt have time to get through the train to do tickets.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 15:28:36 GMT
They're essentially the same thing though. The difference may be due to the fact that the person in the cab at the front of the train is a "Driver" on National Rail trains but a "Train Operator" on LU ones. Maybe NR will also change once ATO starts to appear on the network. The only planned ATO sections are crossrail and thameslink and only in the central sections. No Plans for NR trains to be ATO driven the way tubes are
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2011 15:50:58 GMT
No Plans for NR trains to be ATO driven the way tubes are Not in the short or medium term but I expect it will be inevitable in the long term.
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Post by Chris M on May 19, 2011 8:32:29 GMT
I'm not sure actually. ATO is expensive to install and as you have to programme every change of speed on every route - and this could be different for every type of train, doing it on NR would be a massive undertaking. The principal benefits of ATO are in allowing very small headways and minimisation of variation between trains. The differences between ATO and human operation are typically on the order of seconds. On a railway like LU where you are interested in getting the absolute maximum throughput over a relatively short distance, seconds are very significant. For the majority of the NR network headways are much long, the variability greater, inter-station distances much greater, etc, which means that the cost of ATO will far outweigh the possible benefits. Possibly you'll see it on parts of commuter routes, but I can't think of many NR routes that would see benefit over the entire line. Perhaps LO and some of the south London inner suburban routes (and even then you'd need significant frequency increases to make it worth it), but that's about it.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2011 9:39:32 GMT
Driverless cars are on the horizon, some reports suggest they will be available in ten years although it's likely their introduction will take longer. If you can have a car driven by a computer then I don't see why you shouldn't be able to do the same with a train. Driverless cars will be much safer.
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Post by edwardfox on May 19, 2011 15:01:51 GMT
Surely driverless cars would make many police officers and parking attendants redundant
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2011 20:48:32 GMT
Surely driverless cars would make many police officers and parking attendants redundant Very droll!! ;D As ChrisM points out, ATO is not really necessary on lines that have large gaps between trains.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2011 7:40:45 GMT
You may not think it is needed but I think in the future all transport will be automated. As I said in is little is 20 years time you could find that all cars will be self-driving. There will be a time when quite simply computers will be better at doing these things than humans will.
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Post by retep on May 20, 2011 11:26:00 GMT
You may not think it is needed but I think in the future all transport will be automated. As I said in is little is 20 years time you could find that all cars will be self-driving. There will be a time when quite simply computers will be better at doing these things than humans will. ATO seems to be boring for the drivers on tube trains it seems interesting to passengers as the train travels faster, i think ,but i can imagine how boring it must be for the tube driver.
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