Old '67 vs New '09 Trains Auto/Manual.

I alwaus thought that when they were about to over-run, the T/OP would give a little burst on the EP brake, which would bring the train to a quicker stop.

The 09's have a much more accurate stopping profile than the 67's, so I doubt if over-runs will be an issue on this stock, even more so because it is entirely below ground.

A bit different from the 92 stock then. On this stock, I believe that any movement of the TBC when in ATO mode will bring the train to a halt.

That's interesting. When they stop normallly, the difference from one train to the next seems to be inches. The 67's have always been much more variable in terms of stopping in the same place.

Never been on an 09 that's over-run yet. Is it a big problem?

Are you allowed to drive at normal service speeds in manual like on the central line?

You tube guys need to get this manual driving thing sorted. You are drivers! Little by little it seems LU are taking away your driving skills to the point where you'll be like the PSA's on the DLR. I think you should have the choice of whether to drive in ATO or not!

It looks like a potential System Modification for the '09's - the (probably missed) facility to gently ease the TBC lever into a Service Braking 1/2/3 etc. position, instantly dropping out of auto, in the case of slight overruns.

Just before the scrapping programme for '67s started, the NADB project was completed. This provided a much better stopping profile for the 67s and overcame most of the overrun problems. Perhaps the 09TS needs a Hall effect decelerometer to help it stop in the right place!

The sole purpose of LU is to get people from A to B as quickly as possible. Not to please train fanatics. ATO does this faster and more efficiently. Fact.

May 2, 2011, 6:56pm, notatraindriver wrote:
Are you allowed to drive at normal service speeds in manual like on the central line?

No, however there may be a time in the future where we can drive at line speed if the train is defective.

You can drive normal service speeds now, just get the annoying beep!

Eventually there will be indications to allow full speed manual driving too (if ATO has failed).

There are already warnings of an upcoming restriction (step down to 20 kph target speed and associated chimes approaching a signal at danger). The line speed in PM is masked down to 34 kph (but not enforced by the ATP, like 67 Stock), to make it equivalent to 67TS at the moment.

At the end of asset replacement, new software will be available, which will provide distance to go, and the target speed will step down in small increments to follow a braking curve to a stop or restriction. This will also be when the 34 kph manual target speed is removed and it will go to line speeds, the same as in Auto.

The 09TS Signalling is fully working, it is just using the existing track circuits for train detection, and working on the existing signalling layout. The 09TS ATP calculates its LMA from the railway states received over the DTG-R radio, and the speeds based on its maps and braking profiles in relation to the LMA's. It can therefore forewarn the driver of an upcoming restriction, and trip according to a braking curve, rather than track codes.

The changes at the end of asset replacement make the information sent by the ATP to the drivers display a bit more detailed, allowing the changes in my earlier post to be made.

Hope thats clear, I was struggling with describing that!!

Yes indeed. My own little spreadsheet shows that you can get 3.5 more trains per hour just by converting an existing line to ATO. That's without fiddling with the signalling. If the Victoria Line 67TS had been driven in manual, you'd probably have dropped throughput by 4 tph.