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Post by edwardfox on Apr 26, 2011 10:14:15 GMT
... when paper tickets become a thing of the past and Oyster becomes the sole method of paying your fare. Bus drivers no longer accepting cash and Underground ticket offices just a distant memory. The few remaining ticket machines not equipped for Oyster are changed for machines that do. Each station has a standalone Oyster reader for passengers just wishing to check their balance.
Gates are never left open - except in an emergency situation. Ticket sellers are re-assigned to booking hall duties with no reduction in pay, which may allow existing gateline staff to perform more platform duties.
Large notices are posted above each Way In gateline advising passengers it is their responsibility to ensure they have adequate funds on their Oyster for their journey with a rigidly enforced Penalty Fare of £100 for those who don't. On the spot payment is made at a specially converted Station Supervisor's office. Police are called in the case of a passenger unable or unwilling to make the on the spot payment. The only way to leave the office once inside is to input a PIN into the keypad beside the door. A CCTV camera (whether real or dummy) is in plain view inside the office pointing at the area where the offender stands, so that he/she is full aware of being filmed.
Tourists are given the benefit of the doubt and, on production of their non-UK passport or national ID card, are not detained, but are simply warned by the member of staff allowing them through. The same documentation permits a tourist exemption from payment of the initial deposit for the Oyster on arrival at Heathrow or St. Pancras International. Tourists arriving at Gatwick and buying National Rail tickets to London are issued an Oyster leaflet with their ticket.
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Post by railtechnician on Apr 26, 2011 11:13:26 GMT
... when paper tickets become a thing of the past and Oyster becomes the sole method of paying your fare. Bus drivers no longer accepting cash and Underground ticket offices just a distant memory. The few remaining ticket machines not equipped for Oyster are changed for machines that do. Each station has a standalone Oyster reader for passengers just wishing to check their balance. Gates are never left open - except in an emergency situation. Ticket sellers are re-assigned to booking hall duties with no reduction in pay, which may allow existing gateline staff to perform more platform duties. Large notices are posted above each Way In gateline advising passengers it is their responsibility to ensure they have adequate funds on their Oyster for their journey with a rigidly enforced Penalty Fare of £100 for those who don't. On the spot payment is made at a specially converted Station Supervisor's office. Police are called in the case of a passenger unable or unwilling to make the on the spot payment. The only way to leave the office once inside is to input a PIN into the keypad beside the door. A CCTV camera (whether real or dummy) is in plain view inside the office pointing at the area where the offender stands, so that he/she is full aware of being filmed. Tourists are given the benefit of the doubt and, on production of their non-UK passport or national ID card, are not detained, but are simply warned by the member of staff allowing them through. The same documentation permits a tourist exemption from payment of the initial deposit for the Oyster on arrival at Heathrow or St. Pancras International. Tourists arriving at Gatwick and buying National Rail tickets to London are issued an Oyster leaflet with their ticket. IMO a far better way is to run a totally free service for the passenger, do away with fares completely on all public transport in the capital, restrict car ownership to the suburbs and beyond and move more businesses into the central area. Just imagine the savings to be made in not having to sell tickets or collect fares, not having to employ traffic wardens or maintain parking meters and all the backup and support services required to maintain overused roads, instead maintaining only necessary transport thoroughfares and paving or grassing over the remaining unnecessary streets. Couple this with properly managed service tunnels to house communications, gas, water, electrical etc services obviating the need to constantly dig up and repair roads and footways. Force all freight and goods in the capital to be carried free by a single organisation integrated with the public transportation system and providing efficient daily delivery services from strategically placed depots without the central area. Stagger the working day such that office workers routinely work shifts covering 20 of the 24 hours in a day reducing the load on commuications networks and increasing the efficiency of international business and trading. Just a few ideas from my vision of a utopian London but whether my vision or yours big brother looms large and in the pseudo democracy in which we are all captive there will always be the possibility for the unscrupulous in society to destroy what might otherwise be idyllic. Before the question is asked, it would all be paid for from the public purse i.e. the taxpayer which is really no different to how things are now in reality! |
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Post by Tomcakes on Apr 26, 2011 11:21:39 GMT
In the 1980s the SYPTE were keen to abolish bus fares altogether; the cost of having a conductor collect them, handling and banking the cash etc was more than was being raised from the fares. However, the unions threw the dummy out of the pram and it was stopped, and subsequent privatisation caused entirely the opposite situation.
Ed's idea seems to adopt the principle that the passenger is an evil villain unless they can prove otherwise - something which I know the railway companies are keen on, however. Especially on a system with exclusively machines, it would be entirely conceivable that a passenger might have started his journey at a station with a machine that wasn't in full working order - perhaps he has a card and the card reader is broken, or he has a Scottish note and the machine isn't accepting them. Although the railways seem to be going down this route (guilty unless proven innocent), I still think it's wrong.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Apr 26, 2011 15:16:23 GMT
Its irritating that if you have an oyster that is in perfect working order yet lacks credit that you can't pay the oyster fare on the bus.
It seems at times as though fares are only used now to deter people from using things already over used, which allows politicians and financiers to neatly sidestep the issue of overcrowding to begin with. I wonder how much demand is stifled by fares? Has there ever been a study of what the resultant usage would be? What is the true unfettered demand for public transport?
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Post by railtechnician on Apr 26, 2011 20:02:39 GMT
Its irritating that if you have an oyster that is in perfect working order yet lacks credit that you can't pay the oyster fare on the bus. It seems at times as though fares are only used now to deter people from using things already over used, which allows politicians and financiers to neatly sidestep the issue of overcrowding to begin with. I wonder how much demand is stifled by fares? Has there ever been a study of what the resultant usage would be? What is the true unfettered demand for public transport? The demand is there and it is enormous but many are deterred by poor service, high fares and other factors. Fares have been used over the years to both encourage and discourage usage, politics of this kind is damaging and in so many ways masks reality. The biggest problem is that there is no national plan, no regional plan, not even local plans that are created to be lasting and supported as such, hence we live in a disjointed and very unconnected world in comparison to what it might be with meaningful forethought, proper planning and implementation to properly serve the needs of the population. |
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Post by causton on Apr 26, 2011 22:20:51 GMT
... when paper tickets become a thing of the past and Oyster becomes the sole method of paying your fare. If they made Oyster cards free (even some cheaper inferior ones designed to not last for more than a week or two) and still accepted paper tickets on journeys starting outside London (i.e. going from Southend to Wales)... maybe, just maybe!  |
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Post by pakenhamtrain on Apr 27, 2011 10:41:03 GMT
Would something like this being rolled out in Victoria be a good replacement for a paper ticket? www.robx1.net/victkt/myki/jpg/z09_0031.jpgIt's basically a cardboard version of a myki. When the system is fully working it's only available in 2 hour and Daily. Anything longer you have to buy a proper card. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2011 13:18:46 GMT
As an instant, disposable version of the 'standard' card (myki/Oyster), that is preloaded (and not reloadable) with a 'validity unit', yes it is potential paper ticket replacement, in so far as a paper ticket is for someone without an Oyster card: it is after all essentially a paper ticket with a chip (AIUI).
But it's interesting that the 'validity unit' that it comes with is, in London terms (again AIUI) a short period (max 1day) Travelcard.
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Post by alex92ts on Apr 27, 2011 13:30:34 GMT
I know that anti-social behaviour is another deterrent. The free travel for kids has turned many buses into a playground. I've noticed lots of anti-social behaviour from kids on London buses, compared to very little on commercial services just outside of London. So, free travel isn't always going to encourage more people onto the buses.
It would be great to get more people to have an oyster card. Epping Station always has queues of people waiting to buy paper tickets, and the London bus services venturing into Buckhurst Hill and Loughton still have many people paying the £2.20 flat fare (and then they moan how expensive the buses are!...get an Oyster card then!!). I've noticed that when people pay cash, it really is noticeable as the bus gets delayed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2011 20:59:10 GMT
The Oyster cards days are limited. The future lies with the banks contactless payment system which with some minor tweaks can replace Oyster. Give it 10 years and we'll all have a contactless payment card in our wallet/ purse/ bag. Negating the need to own a seperate Oyster.
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Post by miff on Apr 27, 2011 22:20:25 GMT
Would capping work with a contactless payment system?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 27, 2011 23:26:54 GMT
The biggest problem to sort out with contactless payment is how to reliably determine when to charge, particularly when you have more than one.
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Post by Tomcakes on Apr 28, 2011 0:37:42 GMT
The Oyster cards days are limited. The future lies with the banks contactless payment system which with some minor tweaks can replace Oyster. Give it 10 years and we'll all have a contactless payment card in our wallet/ purse/ bag. Negating the need to own a seperate Oyster. This - and I wouldn't even give it 10 years. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2011 6:44:21 GMT
The Oyster cards days are limited. The future lies with the banks contactless payment system which with some minor tweaks can replace Oyster. Give it 10 years and we'll all have a contactless payment card in our wallet/ purse/ bag. Negating the need to own a seperate Oyster. There is a credit card provided by Barclays which can be used for an Oyster replacement though contact less technology. Not sure if it compartmentalises the Oyster section to calculate the max fare. |
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Post by andypurk on May 1, 2011 18:56:36 GMT
The Oyster cards days are limited. The future lies with the banks contactless payment system which with some minor tweaks can replace Oyster. Give it 10 years and we'll all have a contactless payment card in our wallet/ purse/ bag. Negating the need to own a seperate Oyster. So what would happen to Travelcard seasons if there is no Oyster or equivalent? I can't see the rail companies and TfL giving up the opportunity of taking thousands of pounds up front for an annual ticket, let alone losing the few pounds balance held on many PAYG Oystercards. |
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Post by andypurk on May 1, 2011 19:05:19 GMT
The Oyster cards days are limited. The future lies with the banks contactless payment system which with some minor tweaks can replace Oyster. Give it 10 years and we'll all have a contactless payment card in our wallet/ purse/ bag. Negating the need to own a seperate Oyster. There is a credit card provided by Barclays which can be used for an Oyster replacement though contact less technology. Not sure if it compartmentalises the Oyster section to calculate the max fare. The Oyster and credit card components of the Barclay's OnePulse cards are kept separate. Also, I don't believe that these cards are available to new applicants any more. |
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Post by bicbasher on May 1, 2011 19:06:24 GMT
The passenger should have the right to pay cash if they wish, despite the over inflated cost. I'm sure someone who has no PAYG on their Oyster would rather have the cash option than being kicked off the bus at 2am.
I for one don't want to use my debit card as an Oyster card as a replacement for Oyster or cash!
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