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Post by jamesb on Apr 5, 2011 21:38:19 GMT
Not sure if this is in the right part of the forum;
Can the line controller talk directly to passengers if necessary via the trains PA system? Does this vary from line to line?
And can the line controller make an announcement at all stations at once?
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 5, 2011 22:14:00 GMT
At least on some lines this is possible, as I remember it being discussed on here a long time ago. I think it was in the context of an uncommunicative driver (for whatever reason), maybe it was the thread where an author was asking for advice about a scenario on a Northern Line train. I think the feature was something that wasn't possible on the original D stocks, but is now possible. Whether this is due to something done during the refurbishment and/or due to the coming of Connect I can't remember.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 6, 2011 0:19:27 GMT
The facility referred to in the OP is the OPO Alarm. It is found on deep level tube stocks (ie, Bakerloo, Piccadilly, Northern, etc).
SSR line stocks (Circle, District, H&C and Metropolitan) are not fitted with the system as they generally run in twin track tunnels.
I haven't worked with the system but my basic understanding is that if the deadman (or the CTBC/handle if you like) isn't pressed down after a set period of time it will initially sound an alert in an active cab. If that isn't responded to [by pressing the CTBC/handle down), the line controller is alerted via an alarm in the line control room. The line controller will initially attempt contact with the driver but if they are unable to, they have the facility to tap into the trains PA system.
The line controller cannot make an announcement via station PA systems. A given line's information person used to be able to via a system called the long line PA, but this is no longer used - all station PA's are now made locally only at a given station.
The line controller can of course communicate with any station via land line telephone as well as the train radio providing the station supervisor has their hand held radio on.
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Post by citysig on Apr 6, 2011 9:33:09 GMT
SSR line stocks (Circle, District, H&C and Metropolitan) are not fitted I'll just insert the word "yet" there. The S-stock is OPO alarm fitted.
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Post by Tubeboy on Apr 6, 2011 10:17:31 GMT
Is long line PA now defunct or just mothballed? Is it money related? Is the equipment still in place? I remember back on the Northern, the LIA used to do a test of it every sunday morning, this was in 2006 though. Handy tool to have.
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Post by railtechnician on Apr 6, 2011 11:21:08 GMT
The facility referred to in the OP is the OPO Alarm. It is found on deep level tube stocks (ie, Bakerloo, Piccadilly, Northern, etc). SSR line stocks (Circle, District, H&C and Metropolitan) are not fitted with the system as they generally run in twin track tunnels. I haven't worked with the system but my basic understanding is that if the deadman (or the CTBC/handle if you like) isn't pressed down after a set period of time it will initially sound an alert in an active cab. If that isn't responded to [by pressing the CTBC/handle down), the line controller is alerted via an alarm in the line control room. The line controller will initially attempt contact with the driver but if they are unable to, they have the facility to tap into the trains PA system. The line controller cannot make an announcement via station PA systems. A given line's information person used to be able to via a system called the long line PA, but this is no longer used - all station PA's are now made locally only at a given station. The line controller can of course communicate with any station via land line telephone as well as the train radio providing the station supervisor has their hand held radio on. The system is called OPO(T) and worked over the old Storno Train radio system. One assumes that it has been replaced, upgraded or modified to work over the Connect radio system. There were/are various commands available for both the controller and the engineer, one of which is the ability for the line controller to select the on board train PA and make announcements to the passengers in an emergency. The original 1970s planned long line PA system for all lines except the Victoria line (it was built with its own combined PA+ single channel CCTV longline system) allowed for two control room channels to make announcements to all stations, any selected groups of stations or individual stations. The technology involved altered from the original relay based station/platform select system to Neumann electrronic cubicle based then Plessey/Telefunken cubicle based systems. The Plessey/Telefunken based system became the basic system on all lines except the Victoria line until the King's Cross Fire, following which all 'section 12' stations and later some so called 'section 9' (i.e. Barbican and Farringdon) stations were given Millbank longline systems. Thus up until I retired in 2005 there were two main systems in use, Millbank and Plessey/Telefunken. Under these systems only the LIA made longline PA announcements and could also listen in to platforms, the controls on the controller desks being removed. The main difference between the Millbank and Plessey/Telefunken systems is that the Millbank system is integrated with the UTS gate controls and the fire detection and suppression systems to enable automatic and prompt evacuation when a tube station fire is detected. Otherwise the same station equipment rack (known as an outstation transmission unit or OTU) whether Millbank or Plessey/Telefunken is used for local PA and other functions such as CCTV control, alarm monitoring etc as part of a very highly integrated generalised comms network. If the LIAs no longer make longline PA announcements it is a good thing in my opinion, I'll say no more than that! Of course what used to be my bread and butter as a comms installer and maintainer is fast becoming ancient history as I have no way of keeping up to date with the improvements in technology.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2011 12:07:54 GMT
The controllers of the Central certainly used to be able to make PA's on stations - although that may have changed.
The long Line PA was still being tested on the Northern Line back in 2008.
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Post by railtechnician on Apr 6, 2011 15:20:39 GMT
The controllers of the Central certainly used to be able to make PA's on stations - although that may have changed. The long Line PA was still being tested on the Northern Line back in 2008. I was in charge of the installation teams that installed the Central Line long line PA at 46 stations in 1986. I then moved on to the Met which in 1987 comprised Baker Street to Amersham, Chesham, Watford, Uxbridge, Aldgate and the entire East London, except Shoreditch, where I commissioned all the infill sites for local and longline PA and corrected all the selection circuit errors which at one time sent announcements to the wrong platforms between Bayswater and Edgware Road. In that time I took over all the Met PA maintenance for the duration of the installation and commissioning of the new sites and handed it back in better condition than when I took it over. I followed up with 14 sites commissioning of local and longline PA from Bromley-by-Bow to Upminster on the District and finally installed local PA and commissioned longine PA from Kingsbury to Stanmore on the Jubilee, sorting out the faults in the signals databus, used for remote PA as well as other systems apart from signal control and indication, at Wembley park and Neasden. After 1989 I had little to do with PA except for some specific installation jobs such as temporary ticket hall X at Liverpool Street and at one or two station operations rooms before we took over the majority of comms maintenance (rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic as we called it!) as the staff were being made redundant or given severance in droves in the runup to devolution of engineering and various minor enabling works for the Central Line project. I left the comms department in 1996 after 17 years to return to signals as by then all the best installation jobs had been outsourced to multiple private companies.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2011 18:20:59 GMT
To continue from Colin's comments, on 1973 stock the CTBC alarm will sound after one minute, and the driver has 30 seconds to respond by depressing the CTBC or the brake test button or the alarm will sound in the control room. The controller will attempt to contact the driver via the radio and, if if this attempt is not responded to, they can they cut in to the trains PA system and speak directly to the passengers.
The one minute alarm comes in very handy when being regulated as it is the easiest way to count the minutes. If you travel on the Piccadilly line you will know when a minute has passed as you will hear a burst of air from the brakes as the driver responds to the alarm.
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