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Post by causton on Mar 19, 2011 23:42:06 GMT
I assume three things in this following post: a) Olympic tickets will be bigger than a paper train/LUL ticket. b) They will have no chip in them to activate Oyster readers, nor a magnetic strip (even then, see a) to work ticket barriers. c) Customers with an Olympic ticket will not get a seperate paper ticket (as they could then sell it to someone else if they have an Oyster travelcard/other travelcard valid on the day) So, will there be a lot of people having to get through the manual gate? Will the gates be opened to let anyone through? Or am I missing something?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 5:25:52 GMT
Firstly a lot of stations don’t have manual gates any more, a lot of them have been replaced with automatic double gates.
Secondly the manual gate was only supposed to be opened for passengers who couldn’t physically go through the automatic gates, those with pushchairs, wheelchairs, etc. Anyone else with a non-functioning ticket was to be let through the automatic gates by the attending station staff.
The habit of letting anyone and everyone through the manual gate was never official and when I worked stations we got regular memos issued from on high instructing us to keep the manual gate locked and use it only when absolutely necessary as apparently the amount of time it was open was used to calculate how much LUL had to pay the company that provided the technology.
I doubt if LUL will leave the gatelines open so if your assumption is correct there are going to be queues of Olympic ticket holders waiting for the station staff to let them out. Not my problem , so glad I left all that behind.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 9:36:41 GMT
Taken from the olympics website:
Each ticket for a Games event in London or at outside London venues will receive a one-day ‘Games travelcard’ for the day of that event along with their event ticket. The Games travelcard will entitle you to travel within zones 1–9 in London and by National Rail between London and the recommended stations for some venues outside London.
It implies that you'll receive a seperate "Games Travelcard" along with their event ticket.
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Post by causton on Mar 20, 2011 14:06:39 GMT
Firstly a lot of stations don’t have manual gates any more, a lot of them have been replaced with automatic double gates. I was using those two terms interchangably... incidentally, when I had a bad travelcard (Northwick Park barriers b*ggered up the magstrip) Northwick Park let me through the manual gate as the station staff were inside the office - but all the others I went through used the staff's Oyster* to get through the double gate. *Off topic in my own thread even more I know: but when a staff member touches in/out with an Oyster card for me is this simply the staff member's personal Oyster or does it belong to the station? And if it is true there will be a seperate ticket, then you could make some money back by selling them on then (if you had another travelcard valid for that day) ... unless the people on the barriers are going to be now checking whether everyone has an Olympic ticket manually!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2011 16:39:01 GMT
Staff use their own staff passes to allow you through the gates.
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Post by rrbs on Mar 22, 2011 8:52:33 GMT
The tickets will be paper One Day Travelcards. If it was manual inspection of Olympics tickets it would create some huge queues, and severly inconvenience 'genuine' users of WAGs/manual gates, and be utterly tedious for the CSA involved.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2011 10:05:58 GMT
Before Oyster SAs used to get a “gate pass” when they booked on and I seem to remember that they only worked on the station they were issued at. When Oyster was introduced some people were not happy that we would have to use our own staff passes to let people in and out.
Manually checking someone’s Olympic travel card defeats the object of issuing them in the first place so I guess TfL is working on the assumption that not everyone buying a ticket to the Olympics will be as criminally minded as you.
On the subject of manual gates, not double Autos, it was common practise for SAs to unlock the manual then spend the entire shift leaning on it, opening it up as and when someone approached. As I said when it was unlocked it increased the amount LUL had to pay the company that ran UTS so there were numerous memos demanding that this practise cease but they were generally ignored. I wonder what CSAs lean on now that so many manual gates have been taken away?
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Post by causton on Mar 22, 2011 16:03:11 GMT
Before Oyster SAs used to get a “gate pass” when they booked on and I seem to remember that they only worked on the station they were issued at. When Oyster was introduced some people were not happy that we would have to use our own staff passes to let people in and out. Manually checking someone’s Olympic travel card defeats the object of issuing them in the first place so I guess TfL is working on the assumption that not everyone buying a ticket to the Olympics will be as criminally minded as you. On the subject of manual gates, not double Autos, it was common practise for SAs to unlock the manual then spend the entire shift leaning on it, opening it up as and when someone approached. As I said when it was unlocked it increased the amount LUL had to pay the company that ran UTS so there were numerous memos demanding that this practise cease but they were generally ignored. I wonder what CSAs lean on now that so many manual gates have been taken away? You call me "criminally minded" like I'm going to do that myself! (I don't even have an Oyster season and doubt I will this time next year so it wouldn't work for me anyway!) I really find that interesting that the system of "pay for the amount of time you use the gates" is used - it seems crazy but I suppose it works/is kind of sensible if you think about it) Do staff Oyster cards work in the same way as a normal Oyster card, just all fares set to nothing, so the staff can look at their journeys online (and presumably see a lot of £0 maximum fares from touching in at the gate all the time and never touching out!) or does the Oyster card just open any gate and not record anything? Or am I not thinking outside the box enough and does something else happen?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2011 7:20:53 GMT
You call me "criminally minded" like I'm going to do that myself! (I don't even have an Oyster season and doubt I will this time next year so it wouldn't work for me anyway!) I really find that interesting that the system of "pay for the amount of time you use the gates" is used - it seems crazy but I suppose it works/is kind of sensible if you think about it) Do staff Oyster cards work in the same way as a normal Oyster card, just all fares set to nothing, so the staff can look at their journeys online (and presumably see a lot of £0 maximum fares from touching in at the gate all the time and never touching out!) or does the Oyster card just open any gate and not record anything? Or am I not thinking outside the box enough and does something else happen? Well you suggested it! If not criminally minded then perhaps possessing a rather jaundiced view of your fellow human beings. I have no idea how much a moody travelcard fetches these days and to be honest I really don’t care, gave all that up when I quit stations and moved onto trains. I’m afraid I can’t answer your query regarding staff passes for the same reason, I left before Oyster was brought in for passengers, all I know is that my staff pass can be used multiple times. I’ve never bothered checking my journey record though I’m pretty sure it is there, think it’s been used to catch a few ne’er-do-wells who were booked off sick but were doing a rather large amount of travelling. From distant memory payment to the operating company was based on passenger numbers. For the automatic ticket gates it was easy to calculate as each time the gate opened it was assumed that one passenger was going through but as the manual gates didn’t record how many people were using it numbers were estimated based on how long the gate was unlocked. The same thing applied when the ticket gates were left open or shut down, the payment system assumed that people were still going though and charged LUL top dollar.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2011 8:57:46 GMT
I have never checked online, but every touch in and touch out is recorded on a staff pass but with a zero fare. My understanding with regards to the gates, is LU and CTS (as they were then) had a scheme where CTS were paid on the number of times a ticket was placed into a gate or an oystercard was read. In return LU and CTS agreed gateline availability figures. If LU failed to reach these targets then CTS could claim against LU. If CTS could not achieve this target due to faults then LU would claim against CTS. Thus as is common in the public sector we end up with over zealous rules to make sure we "achieve" the target. This happened on both sides.
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