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Post by manorborn on Dec 18, 2010 21:40:16 GMT
Twice last week this reason was given as to why northbound Mets in the evening were crawling and stop-starting between Baker St and HOTH.
May I ask
a) how come this problem recurs?
b) why do the trains continue to be slow after they have gone through the problem area?
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metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,400
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Post by metman on Dec 18, 2010 21:53:31 GMT
a) much of the equipment is old and unreliable. Ever had an old car? You might fix it, but it still goes wrong!
b) there is no doubt still a backlog of trains ahead. Some trains are diverted to cover gaps in the service and others are short tripped to ensure there are enough trains going the 'other way' This all leads to extra time.
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Post by citysig on Dec 19, 2010 9:56:04 GMT
Unfortunately the Met is having more than its fair share of failures just lately. It is as if the failures for the next year or so have all been brought forward ;D
Willesden Green was 2 separate failures, not connected in any way.
One of them was a suspected track defect, and a pretty harsh 10mph speed restriction was imposed right in the middle of the evening peak. Obviously trains already south of Wembley (and there were several at that time of the evening) had nowhere to go except try and join the queue back north. The service south was thinned out to avoid adding to the back of the queue. But as these things tend to go, the disruption ended up taking much longer to clear.
I was nowhere near the railway for the other failure** and do not have any details, but I believe that was a signal failure on the southbound road.
**That's not to say the failure I did know about was my fault you understand. On the contrary I was on the night shift that week ;D
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metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,400
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Post by metman on Dec 19, 2010 13:21:59 GMT
Nice disclaimer mate!! ;D
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Post by Tubeboy on Dec 19, 2010 13:44:38 GMT
Yep signal failure on the South at Willesden Green. Not to mention the points failure at Neasden yesterday which totally screwed the service up. Line information was useless as usual. Kept wittering about delays on the Circle!
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Post by citysig on Dec 20, 2010 9:42:34 GMT
Line information was useless as usual. Kept wittering about delays on the Circle! I will be sure to pass your comments on. Have you ever been to our control room and seen what (political) constraints the LISs work under? Spend a shift or two with the Met Line LIS and realise they may not be as bad as you thought. |
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Post by citysig on Dec 20, 2010 9:43:35 GMT
Nice disclaimer mate!! ;D  |
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Post by manorborn on Dec 22, 2010 11:33:46 GMT
Thanks for the replies. I still don't understand why the northbound service was slow if the problem was southbound. From my viewpoint as a mere passenger, it seems there is a huge amount of track north of HOTH to stack up trains going south if you need to, rather than delay people trying to get home. The second time it happened the driver gave us no information at all, so it was doubly irritating.
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Post by Tubeboy on Dec 22, 2010 11:44:36 GMT
MetControl, I work on the Jubilee, so I was referring to Neasden SCC. As to the "Political constraints", I just want the truth from the Jubilee LIA, not some spin. If the service is up the wall, tell me that, so I can tell the staff/Punters. But no, its all rosy from their radio broadcasts. Typical example was the other day, 18 minute gap on the Eastbound, followed by another big gap. He is wittering on about a good service. I phone him up, eventually he concedes that there is a couple of huge gaps, but then says, "yeah but apart from them gaps, there is a good service" Not much comfort for the punters waiting for 18 minutes and telling them its a good service!
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Post by manorborn on Dec 22, 2010 11:55:33 GMT
Tubeboy, I had almost an identical discussion with the station assistant at Ruislip Manor a few days ago. There was 15 minute gap, enough to ensure that the next Met was jammed full (and it's a long way from there into town). He announced a good service was running. I suggested otherwise. Eventually he broadcast an announcement that there was a good service but there had been a gap. So all the passengers waiting on the freezing platform looked at each, tutted, and shrugged. It doesn't add to passenger confidence when there is so little sympathy.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Dec 22, 2010 12:31:03 GMT
Thanks for the replies. I still don't understand why the northbound service was slow if the problem was southbound. From my viewpoint as a mere passenger, it seems there is a huge amount of track north of HOTH to stack up trains going south if you need to, rather than delay people trying to get home. The second time it happened the driver gave us no information at all, so it was doubly irritating. If trains are delayed on the southbound, they are then running late and out of turn for their northbound trip. With most Metropolitan Line crew reliefs now taking place at Harrow, blocking back has been occurring on the approach to Harrow due to crew reliefs not in the correct place. Harrow is a particularly bad location because, apart from 1x siding, there's nowhere to stable a train which arrives with no replacing driver, so it sits there until a driver becomes available. |
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Post by manorborn on Dec 22, 2010 14:33:42 GMT
Thanks North End. I did not realise crews were now changing at HOTH, as opposed to WP. Seems odd, bearing in mind the facilities are at WP. Or is this to make it easy to make changes on the fast trains?
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Post by citysig on Dec 23, 2010 11:24:35 GMT
Thanks for the replies. I still don't understand why the northbound service was slow if the problem was southbound. From my viewpoint as a mere passenger, it seems there is a huge amount of track north of HOTH to stack up trains going south if you need to, rather than delay people trying to get home. The second time it happened the driver gave us no information at all, so it was doubly irritating. Are you sure that on the day the service was slow northbound, that that was the same day as the problem on the southbound. If it was then there may have been congestion on the northbound as a result of the late running on the southbound. The fast lines between Wembley and Harrow can be used to queue trains, and sometimes this technique is used. However, each event has to be dealt with at the time, and the circumstances surrounding the problems may not have allowed this to be done. As I said, I wasn't there, and like everyone I am an expert at using hindsight ;D |
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Post by citysig on Dec 23, 2010 11:30:40 GMT
MetControl, I work on the Jubilee, so I was referring to Neasden SCC. Ok, it would not be fair of me to comment on another line's LIS. However, as a staff member I would hope you are aware of the way in which the delays system works and the criteria that is used to decide on a delay message. It is political. It has been discussed before on here, especially the fact that it is a company statistic thing rather than a helpful message to customers. Unfortunately, the LIS's on all lines have been instructed to give out 30-minute service updates over the station/train radio (even this is marked as a target - if they miss one they have to explain why.) During this update, they are only permitted to broadcast what is being shown to customers on the rainbow boards. Our LIS's often spot gaps in the service, but unfortunately the criteria will often mean a delays message is not going to be put out. They often get frustrated at having to broadcast "good service" hot on the heals of the controller telling drivers there is a signal failure. |
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Post by manorborn on Dec 24, 2010 11:31:04 GMT
Metcontrol, thanks for clearing this up. I have often fumed when told that a good service was operating, when it was abundantly clear that there were problems. It's a shame that political considerations override your natural instincts to keep your passengers well-informed.
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