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Post by harlesden on Sept 17, 2010 10:44:38 GMT
LUL stations have each long had a unique 4-digit NLC commencing with 0500 (Acton Town) and it was originally a strictly alphabetical system although recently opened stations obviously get plonked at the end after Woodside Park. The NLC list currently goes up to 0789 for LU stations.
I guess it makes sense to have DLR stations in a separate series of numbers - like 08--. However the first DLR station in the NLC list is Canary Wharf bearing the NLC 0842. Why would the DLR's NLC numbering begin at such an odd position - rather than 0800 or even 0850?
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Post by Chris M on Sept 17, 2010 13:27:02 GMT
Why would the DLR's series begin at Canary Wharf when All Saints station come before it alphabetically and was also part of the original system? Bank is also alphabetically before Canary Wharf, and while it opened later it was planned from early on, but whether the plans or the code allocation came first I don't know.
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Post by railtechnician on Sept 17, 2010 13:49:24 GMT
LUL stations have each long had a unique 4-digit NLC commencing with 0500 (Acton Town) and it was originally a strictly alphabetical system although recently opened stations obviously get plonked at the end after Woodside Park. The NLC list currently goes up to 0789 for LU stations. I guess it makes sense to have DLR stations in a separate series of numbers - like 08--. However the first DLR station in the NLC list is Canary Wharf bearing the NLC 0842. Why would the DLR's NLC numbering begin at such an odd position - rather than 0800 or even 0850? NLC? What's that? All the stations and track sections in between had BRS Codes of 4 characters comprising a letter (denoting line ownership) and three digits and that included some disused stations too. I can't remember what BRS stood for ! |
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Post by harlesden on Sept 17, 2010 13:55:40 GMT
All Saints is 0850. But Canary Wharf appears twice
0842 Canary Wharf - DLR
0847 Cheslyn Hay
0850 All Saints
0851 Bow Church
0852 Canary Wharf
0854 Crossharbour
0855 Heron Quays
0856 Island Gardens
0857 Mudchute
0858 Poplar
0859 Pudding Mill Lane
0860 Shadwell - DLR
0861 South Quay
0862 Limehouse
0864 Tower Gateway
0865 Westferry
0866 West India Quay
0867 Devons Road
0879 Cutty Sark
0882 Blackwall
0883 East India
0884 Canning Town
0886 Royal Victoria
0887 Custom House
0888 Prince Regent
0890 Royal Albert
0891 Beckton Park
0893 Cyprus
0894 Gallions Reach
0895 Beckton
0897 Deptford
0898 Elverson
0928 Greenwich
0940 Lewisham
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Post by Colin on Sept 17, 2010 13:56:46 GMT
NLC's are for revenue purposes.
Paper tickets carry the number so you can tell which station originally issued the ticket, even though it may also carry the station name printed on the ticket as well.
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Post by Chris M on Sept 17, 2010 14:15:17 GMT
NLC? What's that? All the stations and track sections in between had BRS Codes of 4 characters comprising a letter (denoting line ownership) and three digits and that included some disused stations too. I can't remember what BRS stood for ! There is (or at least was) a map online somewhere showing all these codes. We discussed it on this forum ages ago (it turns out it was August 2008), and from that discussion that "BRS" is the British Reference System (the thread is the top google hit for "British Reference System" as an exact phrase). Tubeprune's glossary is the only other relevant web hit I can find about it (the others are talking about the British grid reference system). |
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Post by Chris M on Sept 17, 2010 14:22:49 GMT
NLC's are for revenue purposes. Paper tickets carry the number so you can tell which station originally issued the ticket, even though it may also carry the station name printed on the ticket as well. I have a one day travelcard to hand without any station name printed on it, it contains along the bottom the text: 007939 29 0557 24MAY10 0939 £7:50C The 0557 is the NLC code (Debden in this case), 24MAY10 is obviously the date and 0939 the time of purchase. The £7.50 is the price I paid - does the C indicate the method of payment perhaps? 29 I think from other discussions identifies the machine used to make the purchase. The first number is presumably a unique identifier for this particular ticket? |
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Post by harlesden on Sept 17, 2010 14:33:30 GMT
The 29 is definitely the ticket issuing device, but is puzzling because the machines actually inside ticket offices used by the clerk are commonly 01 or 02 and occasionally 03.
The smaller POMS are 10, 11, 12, 13 etc. while the bigger POMS are 30, 31, 32 etc.
No idea what number is applied to those little card-only machines as they did not exist in my day.
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Post by Colin on Sept 17, 2010 14:48:36 GMT
The first number is presumably a unique identifier for this particular ticket? You had everything else right - the first number would indeed be the ticket number. As for the issuing machine number, 29 - it's been too long since I was on stations/in a ticket office for me too.... EDIT: the 'C' does indeed indicate cash. I can't remember what the letters were for other types of payment though. I've got a nagging feeling 'D' was for debit cards, but I'm really not sure  |
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Post by alholmes on Sept 17, 2010 18:05:57 GMT
All Saints is 0850. But Canary Wharf appears twice 0842 Canary Wharf - DLR 0847 Cheslyn Hay 0850 All Saints 0851 Bow Church 0852 Canary Wharf 0854 Crossharbour .... 0940 Lewisham Does anyone know what 0847 Cheslyn Hay is/was? A quick google shows that it's a district of Walsall. |
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Post by su31 on Sept 17, 2010 20:31:59 GMT
The first number is presumably a unique identifier for this particular ticket? You had everything else right - the first number would indeed be the ticket number. As for the issuing machine number, 29 - it's been too long since I was on stations/in a ticket office for me too.... EDIT: the 'C' does indeed indicate cash. I can't remember what the letters were for other types of payment though. I've got a nagging feeling 'D' was for debit cards, but I'm really not sure The machine no. 29 is on of the new "AFM's" or Advanced Few Fare machines. They have started replacing some of the old Few Fare Machines with a coin / card only touch-screen machine which also lets you top-up Oyster. It is a bit like the Queuebuster, but basically, it accepts coins too and is built into the main bank of machines rather than being a standalone model. |
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Post by harlesden on Sept 17, 2010 20:59:12 GMT
You had everything else right - the first number would indeed be the ticket number. As for the issuing machine number, 29 - it's been too long since I was on stations/in a ticket office for me too.... EDIT: the 'C' does indeed indicate cash. I can't remember what the letters were for other types of payment though. I've got a nagging feeling 'D' was for debit cards, but I'm really not sure The machine no. 29 is on of the new "AFM's" or Advanced Few Fare machines. They have started replacing some of the old Few Fare Machines with a coin / card only touch-screen machine which also lets you top-up Oyster. It is a bit like the Queuebuster, but basically, it accepts coins too and is built into the main bank of machines rather than being a standalone model. Thanks for that information. Ticket issuing has gone through many technological advances since my last day in the ticket office at the end of 1994 - Oyster, Queuebuster, Advanced FFM's, EPOS terminals on the passenger side of the window. And so many people think of ticket office work as simply some old geezer sitting at a window dishing out tickets. The transactions from all of these devices have to be collated and incorporated into the Station Accounts in addition to the clerk having to occasionally leave his window to load the POM's with change - a simple task that itself involves computer printouts and account reconciliation. |
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Post by su31 on Sept 17, 2010 21:03:06 GMT
I know it oh-so well Harlesden! Although the accounting procedures are all done via computer these days... no more balancing the 'four corners!'
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Post by railtechnician on Sept 18, 2010 2:26:18 GMT
The machine no. 29 is on of the new "AFM's" or Advanced Few Fare machines. They have started replacing some of the old Few Fare Machines with a coin / card only touch-screen machine which also lets you top-up Oyster. It is a bit like the Queuebuster, but basically, it accepts coins too and is built into the main bank of machines rather than being a standalone model. Thanks for that information. Ticket issuing has gone through many technological advances since my last day in the ticket office at the end of 1994 - Oyster, Queuebuster, Advanced FFM's, EPOS terminals on the passenger side of the window. And so many people think of ticket office work as simply some old geezer sitting at a window dishing out tickets. The transactions from all of these devices have to be collated and incorporated into the Station Accounts in addition to the clerk having to occasionally leave his window to load the POM's with change - a simple task that itself involves computer printouts and account reconciliation. It certainly has, I used to know about UTS as I installed comms for many of the new ticket offices as they were built and did other enabling works for them and on CrossRail Surveys I had to survey inside ticket offices at Paddington and Liverpool Street so learnt about the local serial networking, interfacing to the fire detection system and the air lines to the gates too. As with everything else the rate of change of everything at LU will gradually nullify all that I know! |
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Post by railtechnician on Sept 18, 2010 2:29:29 GMT
NLC? What's that? All the stations and track sections in between had BRS Codes of 4 characters comprising a letter (denoting line ownership) and three digits and that included some disused stations too. I can't remember what BRS stood for ! There is (or at least was) a map online somewhere showing all these codes. We discussed it on this forum ages ago (it turns out it was August 2008), and from that discussion that "BRS" is the British Reference System (the thread is the top google hit for "British Reference System" as an exact phrase). Tubeprune's glossary is the only other relevant web hit I can find about it (the others are talking about the British grid reference system). Thanks Chris, I recall that thread and have taken the opportunity to download the map again (dunno what I did with the copy I had). I still have somewhere the original BRS list that was issued to me in the late 1980s. But so far no-one seems to know or have said what NLC is an acronym for! |
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Post by harlesden on Sept 18, 2010 2:46:45 GMT
National Location Code
Codes beginning with a zero have always been reserved for LU/DLR stations.
The codes for NR start from 1000
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2010 18:55:46 GMT
Are there NLC's on tramstops as well?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2010 1:54:20 GMT
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 2, 2010 2:06:12 GMT
What are 1272 and 4421? I remember them from a previous life?
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Post by harlesden on Oct 2, 2010 7:11:00 GMT
Oops, can't find the list I found at the start of the thread.
From memory, 1272 refers to a station on the WCML and 4421 to a station in or bordering Wales.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2010 8:10:03 GMT
Does anyone know what 0847 Cheslyn Hay is/was? A quick google shows that it's a district of Walsall. The disused station "Wyrley & Cheslyn Hay" on the Cannock Chase line was referred to simply as "Cheslyn Hay" in a poem by Betjeman, I think. As it was never a real station name in its own right perhaps it was put there on a NLC it couldn't have had, for use as an example. |
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Post by slugabed on Oct 2, 2010 8:27:14 GMT
It was also mentioned,as such,in the song "Slow Train" by Flanders and Swann
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Post by memorex on Oct 2, 2010 22:32:54 GMT
EDIT: the 'C' does indeed indicate cash. I can't remember what the letters were for other types of payment though. I've got a nagging feeling 'D' was for debit cards, but I'm really not sure IIRC 'C' is for cards - I'm certain cash is actually M, (for 'money') I believe 'W' is 'Warrant', can't remember the others unfortunately! |
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Post by Tomcakes on Oct 2, 2010 23:24:56 GMT
EDIT: the 'C' does indeed indicate cash. I can't remember what the letters were for other types of payment though. I've got a nagging feeling 'D' was for debit cards, but I'm really not sure IIRC 'C' is for cards - I'm certain cash is actually M, (for 'money') I believe 'W' is 'Warrant', can't remember the others unfortunately! The BR system is certainly : M - cash X - card W - warrant Q - cheque |
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Post by Colin on Oct 3, 2010 0:45:54 GMT
IIRC 'C' is for cards - I'm certain cash is actually M, (for 'money') I believe 'W' is 'Warrant', can't remember the others unfortunately! You are indeed quite correct - thinking about it, 'C' is credit card ('D' is debit card), and of course 'Q', like BR/NR is for Cheques. Now cheques....specifically company cheques....is that 'X' on LU or is it still 'Q'? |
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Post by Chris M on Oct 3, 2010 1:40:14 GMT
You are indeed quite correct - thinking about it, 'C' is credit card ('D' is debit card) Either that isn't correct or some algorithm somewhere in the system is wrong, as I don't have a credit card but do use a debit card. |
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 3, 2010 2:08:58 GMT
X is/was non-cheque non-warrant and non-cash on APTIS and PORTIS.
I've got a car parking PORTIS ticket from Devils Bridge with an X in it somewhere. ;D
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Post by Colin on Oct 3, 2010 5:07:07 GMT
Either that isn't correct or some algorithm somewhere in the system is wrong, as I don't have a credit card but do use a debit card. So are you saying you've used a debit card and had a 'C' on an LU issued ticket? |
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Post by SE13 on Oct 3, 2010 6:39:09 GMT
You are indeed quite correct - thinking about it, 'C' is credit card ('D' is debit card) Either that isn't correct or some algorithm somewhere in the system is wrong, as I don't have a credit card but do use a debit card. Likewise..... When I buy my tickets for the Christmas forum meet, I'll update. |
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Post by Colin on Oct 3, 2010 6:50:22 GMT
But you'll be buying NR tickets not LU issued ones...
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