Piccadilly Line - "no new trains for 8 years"

The Met's A stock is 50 years old, the Piccadilly's stock is 37 years old. I travel on it regularly and see no problem with it lasting another eight years.
Unless the people who maintain the A stock believe it's actually falling to bits, even they could go another 10 years.

LT untill the 90s consistantly specified very high standards for its stock. Most of its products seem to have an extra possible 20-40% life on top of what was designed. It just proves though that sometimes you cant win; everyone wants new, but wants the quality of the old stuff aswell.

Total lack of joined up thinking. Maybe someone in the high echelons of Government in this country will suggest transferring D78's to the Piccadilly line ;D

Xerces Fobe

Why is EPTUG getting its knickers in a twist over the Piccadilly Line? The line passes briefly through the borough on both of its western branches; but also serves the London Boroughs of Hillingdon, Hounslow, Hammersmith & Fulham, Harrow, Camden, Islington, Haringey and Enfield in addition to the Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea and the City of Westminster

EPTUG get their knickers in a twist about most things. I engaged some of their members in discussion at Ealing Broadway a few months ago and had my belief that they were a group with too much time on their hands and in need of a serious reality check confirmed.

With no disrespect intended to anyone here, they are a group of enthusiasts who have no understanding of the real world and real issues, nor have any desire to gain such understanding. They got quite a slating in the local press a couple of years ago when they were described as 'unrepresentative' of Public Transport users in Ealing.

Why such a desire for new trains? The 73ts is now pretty reliable, with most of the issues which gave trouble in the early 2000s period resolved, and the interior refurbishment gave an interior ambience comparable to the 95 and 96 stock.

I find it incredible that, in a climate where we are going to experience widely publicised cuts, people still want new trains.

The only issue with the 73ts is that there aren't really enough of them, but with increased reliability this has become less of an issue.

Any new stock would no doubt include the now fashionable massive % reduction in seating so why hurry this along?

The time at which this problem is at its worst could easily be noted, passed along, and a couple of Wood Green reversers worked into the timetable to be travelling SB at the time they are apparently most needed.
This would have the additional benefit of giving those coming from locations north of Wood Green a slightly more comfortable journey with less people cramming onto the train south of Wood Green.

Even with a train starting from Wood Green, it will still be crammed by the time it got to Caledonian Road! You couldn't increase the frequency by having a couple of Wood Green reversers, but only reduce the frequency north of there.

Unless they freeze the design at this stage and build it for 2020

Perhaps my post was worded badly, but I meant that in order to have trains starting from Wood Green, you'd need a gap in the timetable north of there to fit them in.

Which sort of got me thinking.....

Trains W/B out of Arsenal on match days in the 70's and 80's were frequent enough to shift pushing 60,000 people some days in a short space of time, what was the frequency back then?

Well, obviously not everyone cleared out by tube, but the queues were far more manageable than today, and that was before JCL cleared off 20 minutes before the end......

That Idea has been promoted since the second world war; it just wont happen regrettably. Businesses work those times because other businesses do, its a very tough circle to break.

Bear in mind that the proposed '52ts order for the pic was for 100 trains x 7car and envisaged a 40tph frequency through the middle with conventional signalling.

Perhaps this gap in orders might allow a more radical rethink of the train formation. One of the reasons 6 long cars was adopted was that the slightly shorter train length ment that the whole train could be accomodated in the shortest of pic platforms; essential for OMO/ATO. With in cab CCTV that reason becomes redundant allowing trains that are longer than platforms to run. Something like 8 x 47' cars maybe?