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Post by overtheunderground on Jul 12, 2010 17:07:49 GMT
I'm new here, so hopefully I've posted this in the right place - I was looking for advice on a project elsewhere and someone said this would be a good place to ask for help. In short: I'm trying to build a house inside a surplus London Underground carriage (I'm looking to use A-stock, for the extra height). I intend to publish designs, plans, experiences and the rest as I go along, hopefully helping anyone else to do something similar. I've done a lot of research so far, and I've already had a member of London Underground staff giving me some very helpful info, but I figure the more people I ask the better!
One of the main things I'm currently trying to work out is how to place the carriage in position. I've been told that (temporarily, at least) it'll be best to roll it on to a piece of track on site, but I don't really know how I'd go about acquiring train track, or what kind of work I should expect to be doing to make it secure enough to hold the weight. Any advice on this, or any other parts of the project, would be very much appreciated.
I've got a project website up with more info, the link is in my profile if you're interested (my apologies if I shouldn't be linking to it - it seems relevant, but I'll remove this if anyone objects). Thanks everyone.
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SE13
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2013
Glorious Gooner
Posts: 9,737
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Post by SE13 on Jul 12, 2010 17:45:53 GMT
Hello and welcome first of all.
The weight is the obvious drawback, but what an undertaking all the same!
There are a couple of threads kicking around regarding the purchase of retired stock, I'll have a look for those in due course unless someone beats me to it. Apparently though, the actual transport from A to B would cost more than the actual purchase in the first place.
As for track, Lincoln Central station had a refit a couple of years ago, and someone told me recently that the track replaced is still in existence, though sadly I haven't got a clue where. Again, there is a thread here saying where a lot of broken LU stock goes to, and it's quite possible that track goes to the same place. Another thread I'll have a look for and link back to.
Meantime, do keep us in touch with the project, it sounds fascinating.
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
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Post by slugabed on Jul 12, 2010 18:43:32 GMT
I've occasionally thought about doing something like this,and have stalled on the "lack of land" issue!
However,my researches have turned various issues up.
Planning....not easy under the (I think) 1960 Caravan Act to get permission to put a railway carriage on a plot of land to be used as a home.However,at least ONE Forum member has a tube-stock garden shed!
A lot of the rolling weight of a railway carriage is under the solebar.Bogies (esp on DMs) and underfloor equipment.The shell alone,stripped,probably weighs only a few tons.You could build some brick supports to align either with the jacking-points (if marked) or the bogie spigot receptacles.This will make transport and (particularly) manoevring into position by crane that much easier (and hence cheaper).
Sounds a great idea,though...let us know how you get on,and,at the risk of repeating myself,if you have a spare luggage rack with umbrella hook,put it to one side for me!
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SE13
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2013
Glorious Gooner
Posts: 9,737
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Post by SE13 on Jul 12, 2010 18:56:38 GMT
I've got the land, but not the money!
I wonder how much those 83ts cost to be moved and hoisted into position in Central London?
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neilw
now that's what I call a garden railway
Posts: 284
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Post by neilw on Jul 13, 2010 9:39:06 GMT
I have a 62 TS DM in my garden. I bought a 60ft panel of track from the Nottingham Sleeper Co, who are near Worksop rather than Nottingham. By chance it was a piece from the Hainault loop. I don't know where you are, but companies who specialise in recycling sleepers for gardens etc obviously get their raw material from track contractors. The foundations are about a foot of yellow roadstone tamped down with a whacker plate. I then laid the sleepers out on top of this, 24 for 60ft of track. The running rails were then manhandled into place, I cut them into 20ft lengths with a burning torch otherwise they were too heavy to move with a bunch of pals. There are two sets of fishplates at the two joints. With tracks in place the spring keys were installed with a sledge hammer. The space between and around the sleepers was filled with hardcore to just below the top of the sleepers, as proper granite ballast is expensive, I used this for the top layer so that it looks realistic. Regarding transport, have a word with David Allely, he did a terrific job for me. We backed the low-loader as far as possible into the garden, which was about the length of the whole ensemble. Using a sloping piece of temporary track between the low loader and my panel of track, we just rolled the car down using the winch, and hey-presto, job done. At 52 ft long, it sits nicely on a 60ft panel, I'm not sure of the length of an A60/2 but you could always overhang the ends. You will need to address planning permission, I had something of a to-and-fro with my local council, and I didn't want to live in it, only to restore and preserve it as a thing of beauty. If it were a garden shed, it would be a permitted development and not need PP. Railway carriages apparently don't enjoy this exemption. I even tried arguing that "lots of people have trains in their garden, it's just that this one is 12"/ft scale"-not even a smile!
good luck
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Post by overtheunderground on Jul 13, 2010 14:20:28 GMT
Thanks very much for the info, everyone, it's a huge help.
SE13, I'll certainly have a look for the posts you mentioned, as it sounds like they'll be useful.
Land is definitely my biggest hurdle so far, there just doesn't seem to be any going in North/Central London at the moment. For now, at least, all I can really think to do is wait and keep an eye out. Planning permission could be difficult, but from what I've heard it should be no worse than any other new-build house; even though it's an unusual structure, I put a lot of importance on the design of the finished product, and I'm going to have an architect on board with the project by that point who should be able to help. The fact that I'm looking at the more artsy areas of London should also help in terms of having the neighbours happy with it!
From what I've heard so far, I'm expecting to spend more on transportation than on the carriage itself. Weight is an interesting one - apparently I'm looking at ~20 tonnes with bogies, ~10 without; if I'm going to need to lift the carriage, I've been told it'll probably be cheaper to remove them, if I leave them on, however, I might well be able to handle the whole job without a crane (which should, apparently, be cheaper overall). Winching it straight on to a truck, and then off again at the other end, looks like the preferable option (and seems to tally with what Neil described above, which is good). If anyone has any opinions to the contrary, though, I'd be very happy to hear them. I really appreciate having the name of someone who can sort out the transportation, too.
In terms of placement, the only reason I'm thinking of using a piece of track is that I've been told it'll probably be cheaper (including transport) to do that than to have the work of removing the bogies and hiring a crane. Again, if any of you guys think it'll cost less the other way then I'm all ears!
I'll see what companies are dealing with sleepers and with any luck they'll be able to give me some ideas of how I could get hold of a piece of track - I would never have though of that on my own! The train length is 16m (~53ft), so a 60ft track section should be perfect. It's interesting to hear that you didn't need any serious foundation work, as that's something a few people told me could be an issue.
Thanks again guys!
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Post by londonstuff on Jul 13, 2010 21:13:04 GMT
neilw - the photo as your avatar looks amazing - could you post a couple more photos? It'd be brilliant to see it clearly. You could *easily* start charging for tours  Is your project finished?
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neilw
now that's what I call a garden railway
Posts: 284
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Post by neilw on Jul 14, 2010 9:46:20 GMT
Is a project ever finished? I've pm'd you |
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