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Post by londonstuff on Jun 12, 2010 11:09:00 GMT
Sorry for the negative thread title, but I've just tried to plan a journey and don't think I've ever seen this many closures at a weekend before. At least if you want to get from Victoria to Epping, via Oxford Circus, you should be okay ;D While I know that essential work has to be carried out and it's not realistic to expect everything to be open all of the time, surely this is a bit much? Would it not be better, for example, to close longer stretches of just one or two lines and get more work done there, rather than fragment it across the whole system?
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Post by suncloud on Jun 12, 2010 11:50:49 GMT
The Overground (or most of it) Bakerloo and Waterloo is only closed on Sunday. But it does go to show how much of an impact certain key locations being out of use has on the disruption map though. e.g. Willesden and Aldgate areas can affect most LO and SSL 'lines'. By the time you look at the ongoing upgrade works, especially on Jubilee (signalling), Met (for S stock) and DLR (3-car and Stratford Int.) there's not many lines left untouched I do hope the NLL work settles down soon, must be frustrating for your line to shut at a weekend not too long after a prolonged closure.
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Post by citysig on Jun 12, 2010 16:11:19 GMT
Many of the closures are "part closures" and not full line closures. For some lines those closures - whilst still an inconvenience to some - the bulk of the line is still running.
Also add to this that part of the closures on the Met, Circle, H&C and District are all linked to work occuring at Farringdon, Aldgate and Barking.
When you think about it, at least this work was tied to occur at the same time, rather than 1 weekend of Aldgate, another of Farringdon and then another of Barking all having differing suspensions. So really, 3 weekends of work is being done in one - however bad it looks.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2010 18:04:42 GMT
Many of the closures are part closures and not full line closures. It would help if the part closures were organised efficiently and sensibly rather than the shambles of disorganisation I experienced today. We went to the District Line at Victoria at lunchtime today, myself to go east to Embankment (and a dogleg back home), and Mr Diana to go west to Hammersmith. Went to the westbound platform first. Train indicator incapable of showing any destination (which is particularly unhelpful on the westbound District Line), just 1: ----------- with a blank. Literally hundreds of prospective passengers milling round not knowing if they were on the right platform or what. Overseas visitors heading for Edgware Road who I had to give advice to (there was no Circle of course) because there was none forthcoming from officialdom. Had to identify where the train was going as it came in, no other indication, no PA, nothing. Waved farewell, back over to the eastbound side for me. This was a masterpiece. The train indicator said Mansion House for all services. The trains themselves all said Embankment. The signboards on the platform, which many more tourists were consulting (and why not?), showed the complete service, including the Circle. Yet again no PA until the train ran in, when it was completely inaudible due to the noise of the train of course. When we got to Embankment, end of the service, we were held outside for some time due to congestion and then found our own train was in the platform for several minutes because the driver himself was expected to go back through several cars and decant those still seated. Why the large numbers of staff not required because of the closures could not have been assigned to assist to get this done in short order I cannot imagine. And nor can you. Train continued on east with the lights out, and another came in and followed it after similar timewasting. I am guessing that they were actually going all the way to Mansion House, as the indicator said, to turn round; you boys will know the correct version of this so I will ask you if this is right.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2010 18:16:55 GMT
AFAIK, there's a reversing cross-over at Embankment (if it hasn't been removed), so if they were reversed, it sounds strange to continue east to Mantion house.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 12, 2010 18:46:56 GMT
Trains are indeed reversing via the crossover just east of Embankment. It is not possible to display Embankment on the EB platform DMi's. There is Thameslink work going on at Blackfriars.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2010 18:53:37 GMT
AFAIK, there's a reversing cross-over at Embankment (if it hasn't been removed), so if they were reversed, it sounds strange to continue east to Mantion house. What is probably happening is that the controllers are turning as many trains as possible via the crossover east of Embankment, and sending the ones where it would be detrimental to service if reversed, on to Mansion House. I see that Dstock7080 beat me to it. Are trains still reaching Mansion House empty, or is literally everything going round at Embankment because of the Thameslink work at Blackfriars? One more question: if Embankment becomes unavailable for some reason, where is the next place to turn the service? Is there a place after Earls Court but before Embankment?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2010 20:20:00 GMT
Is there a place after Earls Court but before Embankment? Isn't there one at South Kensingon? You also have High St. Ken...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2010 21:35:22 GMT
What is probably happening is that the controllers are turning as many trains as possible via the crossover east of Embankment, and sending the ones where it would be detrimental to service if reversed, on to Mansion House. I see that Dstock7080 beat me to it. Are trains still reaching Mansion House empty, or is literally everything going round at Embankment because of the Thameslink work at Blackfriars? One more question: if Embankment becomes unavailable for some reason, where is the next place to turn the service? Is there a place after Earls Court but before Embankment? Everything MUST go round at Embankment. (the points are situated between there and Temple and accessed by way of a "main line shunt") South Kensington is the next option were some failure to befall the points at Embankment.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Jun 12, 2010 21:42:41 GMT
When was the #-over at Victoria taken out? That might have helped perhaps if it was still there (shades of North Ealing!).
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jun 13, 2010 16:04:28 GMT
Everything is indeed reversing at Embankment, it is not possible to get into Temple EB because of the possession for the Blackfriars work.
I knew there was a crossover at St. James's Park MANY years ago but have never heard reference to one at Victoria.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2010 16:12:14 GMT
And the other morning some of the levers were stuck in the frame and not going back, causing some delay. Luckily, the Technical Officer was based at Embankment so didn't have far to go!
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jun 14, 2010 9:37:33 GMT
Today I notice severe delays on The Picc due to a signal failure at Hammersmith, but the District having a good service through the same area....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2010 13:52:38 GMT
Today I notice severe delays on The Picc due to a signal failure at Hammersmith, but the District having a good service through the same area.... It probably only affects the fast lines. Unlike a failure a few weeks ago when an eastbound District train ended up with a signal to the fast when the equipment decided to just do it itself!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2010 14:32:44 GMT
The closures ARE very annoying and we are are, I think, now entitled to ask WHEN the work finally is going to be complete. By that I mean actually complete - not complete for a few weeks until the next long-term programme of closures is announced.
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Post by Colin on Jun 14, 2010 17:01:24 GMT
The closures ARE very annoying and we are are, I think, now entitled to ask WHEN the work finally is going to be complete. By that I mean actually complete - not complete for a few weeks until the next long-term programme of closures is announced. Well the PPP was/is a 30 year thing, so it could be well 30 years before absolutely everything is complete. Then you have the "10 year T fL investment plan"; so maybe it's 10 years. I don't suppose any member of this forum can answer the question, but one thing is certain.......once it's all done they'll probably start all over again as many assets will probably be life expired when it's all complete - particularly if we are indeed looking at 30 years. However...... Not everything that needs to be done is service affecting. My understanding is that the vast majority of the service affecting work is being done first, because apart from anything else it puts assets into place which then make life easier later on. New trains need the newer track to run on. Services can only get faster with new signalling that allows greater capacity and of course ATO to take full advantage.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jun 15, 2010 11:38:33 GMT
I would imagine it's fairly much like the Forth Bridge, in that once it's finished at one end, it's time to return to the other and start again.
A lot of these lines were built by the Victorians, and haven't seen much change since those days. Upgrades are essential to keep the service running, and to roll the new trains in, so these things are inevitable.
Think of (say) the A1 and the last time you managed to get from London to Edinburgh without encountering at least one set of roadworks.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2010 18:56:57 GMT
The closures ARE very annoying and we are are, I think, now entitled to ask WHEN the work finally is going to be complete. By that I mean actually complete - not complete for a few weeks until the next long-term programme of closures is announced. Well the PPP was/is a 30 year thing, so it could be well 30 years before absolutely everything is complete. Then you have the "10 year T fL investment plan"; so maybe it's 10 years. I don't suppose any member of this forum can answer the question, but one thing is certain.......once it's all done they'll probably start all over again as many assets will probably be life expired when it's all complete - particularly if we are indeed looking at 30 years. Strewth! I'm sorry, but the notion of "weekend closures without end - for ever and ever, amen" is simply not on. This sustained level and duration of weekend disruption is, to my mind, unprecedented as it is. It riles me to think that this is now something that we're just supposed to accept as the norm for ever. We're "sold" this disruption with "think of the improvements it'll deliver". Well, what's the use if we're never going to get to enjoy the benefits of those improvements for long before yet further disruption is commenced?
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