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Post by deadmans on May 4, 2010 7:31:56 GMT
Before The S stock suffered its first London graffiti attack. Needless to say it now looks pristine again, no lasting damage.
Hard labour is needed for these f**kw**s.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 4, 2010 19:01:50 GMT
I seem to remember this happened a while back, shortly after the arrival at Neasden.
I'm sure the thread-searchers can find it quicker that I!
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 4, 2010 21:15:28 GMT
I seem to remember this happened a while back, shortly after the arrival at Neasden. No, it was previously attacked in Derby but not in London.
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Post by citysig on May 4, 2010 21:28:27 GMT
Unfortunately, it will happen to all of the new trains, and probably not that far into their operational careers. I do wonder if the idiots that do this also tarnish their parent's new possessions. "Oh great Dad's saved up and brought a new sofa, but it won't look that great until I write something meaningless on it."
I know what my Dad would have done if I had, and maybe that's the problem.
But anyway, it will happen, and fairly pointless starting a debate on it here as the large majority here are (hopefully) mature in mind enough to realise the pointlessness of it. The rest cannot be educated.
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Post by tubelightonline on May 5, 2010 7:15:46 GMT
No, it was previously attacked in Derby but not in London. Not guilty...honest!
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 5, 2010 20:14:13 GMT
No, it was previously attacked in Derby but not in London. My bad.
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 5, 2010 21:41:43 GMT
To be honest it was always going to happen and, with 191 of them arriving at a station near you soon, we can't wrap them up in cotton wool forever. Graffiti, like it or not, is something we currently have to live with and the train has been designed specifically to deal with this type of activity.
I realise and accept that this sort of issue generates some very strong emotions but I try to tread a more liberal path. I would like to see much more engagement with the Graffiti fraternity in order to engender a better understanding on both sides. Whilst you are never going to stop the thrill seeking adrenalin junky types who thrive on illegally and covertly damaging our property I do believe there is a whole layer of the Graffiti Community who could be engaged in a much more positive way.
I am sick of people telling me how good it is when a Graffiti artist gets injured (or worse), this is just not acceptable to my mind (we all have Mum's sitting at home!). The TfL Safety & Citenzenship Department do a great deal of work in this area with young people and I would like to see more of that type of activity taking place.
Before I start an all out war here, and stray further off topic, I would like to add that I do not condone this type of activity and am equally as dismayed as all of you when our trains or property are vandalised (although I do accept that they consider it beautification rather than vandalism). It's just the way we currently deal with this type of activity is not working and I suspect never will so we need to try a different tactic.
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metman
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Post by metman on May 5, 2010 22:47:10 GMT
Well said! I hope some new ways of combating graffiti are found. I might just add that when the A stock were refurbished, the paint used included a very high gloss finish, a first , that at the time aided the removal of graffiti ;D Times change.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on May 5, 2010 23:34:28 GMT
I do believe there is a whole layer of the Graffiti Community who could be engaged in a much more positive way. Absolutely - although I'm not in favour of graffiti, there needs to be some means found that can channel the creativity, yes, creativity. There is a world of difference between mindless tagging (Phil the Greek, TAKI 183, JULIO 204 et al) and (although I dislike using the phrase) 'street art'. There is a large hole in many social outreach projects - namely that of the mid to late teens - *if* some means can be found: sobeit legalised 'walls' or decent workshops where the talent can actually be harnessed and turned into something positive, then I'm all for that. LA and Chicago have created legal walls and, more importantly created a framework where the mid-to-late teens can be taught some skills; respect for property and somewhere to exercise their talents. I am sick of people telling me how good it is when a Graffiti artist gets injured (or worse), this is just not acceptable to my mind (we all have Mum's sitting at home!). The TfL Safety & Citenzenship Department do a great deal of work in this area with young people and I would like to see more of that type of activity taking place. Too true, no matter what people think, we're all the same under the skin. It's just what we do with the skin that's different. It's just the way we currently deal with this type of activity is not working and I suspect never will so we need to try a different tactic. Perhaps the Safety and Citizenship Dept. could take a leaf out of other book written abroad? It will not cure it overnight, but it might do something with all that misdirected energy. <fx>stampede of outrage, vituperation and bile</fx>
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 6, 2010 11:51:19 GMT
Unfortunately, it will happen to all of the new trains, and probably not that far into their operational careers. I do wonder if the idiots that do this also tarnish their parent's new possessions. "Oh great Dad's saved up and brought a new sofa, but it won't look that great until I write something meaningless on it." You and I look at and S stock and think "new train", we then look at an A stock and think "old train" but do the graffiti artists? I wonder if they just look at both and think "blank canvas"?
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Post by 21146 on May 6, 2010 13:32:50 GMT
I think it's fair to assume that they are certainly aware what a new train looks like, regard hitting one as a 'prize' (weren't they competing to see who could get an S Stock first?), and more importantly, read every word we post here; including details of delivery dates; which is why a level of descretion should be exercised in all posts on this site. I often get people with rather odd user names attempting to link to my Flickr site and when I examine their profile, it's full of photos showing graffiti tags/logos etc and they swiftly get blocked. One time I was asked what a certain building was used for which I'm sure was a ruse to smoke out possible depot/sidings security arrangements - they didn't get answered. But of course that doesn't stop other people viewing pix and I have more than once considered deleting, or restricting, pics taken in depots. I haven't, because these locations can be ascertained via the 'Net using other means, so I'm not revealling anything that's secret, but it's always something I keep in mind and may reconsider. Ditto I don't post photos of sub-stations or SCCs because of the possible terrorist threat, though these may may appear unlabled in the background. Saying that there are now two S Stock in Neasden is not a crime risk - they can read that in Modern Railways etc, posting the PIN code for a depot's gate is another matter...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2010 22:26:40 GMT
One presumes the S stock will have been treated to something a touch more resistant to both the graffitti and to the rather hap-hazzard attempts to remove it, after all a good number of the tags on C stock are as visible in paint remover as they were in paint !!
A rolling program to repaint rolling stock wouldn't go amiss!!
I agree the big stick approach to these criminals isn't working, I'd advocate a much bigger stick !!!
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metman
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Post by metman on May 6, 2010 22:55:48 GMT
Ha ha!! I would like to see a bit more time spent in the paint shop!
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Post by 21146 on May 7, 2010 0:50:19 GMT
"Well said" Aspect! The C Stock are returning to a sh*t-state exterior-wise, the D Stocks are starting to follow, and don't get me started about A Stock cab fronts! The S's will be in the same condition within 5 years. The C Stocks will be a disgrace to London during the Olympics when serving the key Olympic "entry" station of West Ham. I mean, what line even has a paintshop nowadays and why was the C's original refub apparently expected to last for ever?
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 7, 2010 18:49:44 GMT
In fairness the 'C' Stock refurb was supposed to give them another 10 years or so. By the time they are replaced the original refurb would have been in excess of 20 years ago!
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 7, 2010 18:59:34 GMT
So what was missed at '10years', another refurb or the replacement stock?
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 7, 2010 19:41:56 GMT
Replacement stock. At the 8 year mark (1999/2000) when new stock should have been ordered the PPP was just kicking in and at the 10 year mark (2001/2002), when new stock should have been arriving, PPP was in it's infancy and new stock orders to meet the JTC (Journey Time Capability) figures were just being formulated. There was no money before PPP and lots of it (albeit 'virtual' money!) afterwards and the various Infraco's were looking to meet the PPP performance figures and start earning their rewards. It all seems so long ago...
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Post by t697 on May 7, 2010 20:47:35 GMT
Replacement [for C] stock. At the 8 year mark (1999/2000) when new stock should have been ordered the PPP was just kicking in and at the 10 year mark (2001/2002), when new stock should have been arriving, PPP was in it's infancy and new stock orders to meet the JTC (Journey Time Capability) figures were just being formulated. There was no money before PPP and lots of it (albeit 'virtual' money!) afterwards and the various Infraco's were looking to meet the PPP performance figures and start earning their rewards. It all seems so long ago... Actually the C stock and Tube Stock refurbs were all intended to provide 15 to 20 years. Of course C stock has now done about that since refurb. One thing about the latest paint products on the new trains is that they are formulated with much less noxious chemicals, so repainting in depots should be practicable again in the future. remains to be seen whether the opportunity is taken up...
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prjb
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Post by prjb on May 7, 2010 22:10:03 GMT
Actually the C stock and Tube Stock refurbs were all intended to provide 15 to 20 years. Of course C stock has now done about that since refurb. When 5585-6585 went off for it's initial refurb (which was later re-refurbed!) back in the very early 90's the line was advised that it would give the stock a further 10 years give or take. One thing about the latest paint products on the new trains is that they are formulated with much less noxious chemicals, so repainting in depots should be practicable again in the future. remains to be seen whether the opportunity is taken up... Perhaps for small 'dings' but never for full resprays.
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Post by younglulnerd on Dec 8, 2010 18:23:09 GMT
why not have the c-stock when they retire as blank canvases... take one train for LTMActon and the rest can have graffiti on, they look cr*p enough as they are now. I'm sure Banksy (who I actually like, he's funny) will enjoy that, or even better, have them like that in service, just say, not on the windows, doors and fronts, and i'm sure the olympic people and the rugby world cup people (everyone forgets england are hosting that in 2015) will say "how creative" and stuff.
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Post by singaporesam on Dec 9, 2010 15:01:34 GMT
I agree the big stick approach to these criminals isn't working, I'd advocate a much bigger stick !!! It works here , 1 attack in 24 years ain't a bad record. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Fricker
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metman
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Post by metman on Dec 9, 2010 22:21:38 GMT
Singapore have it so right!!
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