rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,246
|
Post by rincew1nd on Apr 13, 2010 20:24:26 GMT
I've just been mooching around the "maps" section of the T fL site, and came across the 'Taking bikes on the Tube' diagram. Firstly, it seems like a nice diagram. No silly kinks; depite being dated December 2009 it's not the same as the 'general' "Tube map". Secondy, I notice that bicycles are not allowed on the tunnel sections of the Combine except for the Circle Line (new extended variety), and little bits off it. This goes so far as banning them between Colindale and Hendon Central. I'm trying to figure out why. What makes the Circle, Met south of Baker St and all of the District Line special? Thirdly, it refers to "bicycles" and "cycles", nothing on these pages limits it to 'pedal cycles' or 'push bikes'.....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2010 22:32:50 GMT
IIRC bicycles are banned from tube tunnel areas for safety reasons - that being the obstruction caused by a bicycle during an evacuation in a tube tunnel.
The ample space available on a sub surface car means that bicycles are allowed - though still not allowed during peak hours.
The reference to push bikes is always interesting! As a tandem owner, I'd love to know if we would be allowed the tandem on the Underground!
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,317
|
Post by Colin on Apr 14, 2010 1:04:23 GMT
Basically, what rob says is absolutely spot on. Section 12 of the Conditionsof carriage contains the relevant information. 12.2.1. You can bring a folding buggy/pushchair or folding cycle with you on any line at all times. You can also bring an unfolded buggy/pushchair or cycle with you, but only on the sections of line shown below *, and not between 0730 and 0930 or 1600 and 1900 on Mondays to Fridays (except public holidays). Special arrangements apply on the Bakerloo line. * to save duplication, read this as refer to the linked to map.Added to explain the note above: Bakerloo Line (Queen’s Park and Harrow & Wealdstone:)- in the direction Queen’s Park to Harrow & Wealdstone,
cannot be carried between 0730 and 0930 Monday to Friday
- in the direction Harrow & Wealdstone to Queen’s Park,
cannot be carried between 1600 and 1900 Monday to Friday.
|
To answer the tandem question, the relevant part is: 12.1.3. You must not bring with you anything that: - is more than 2 metres long
- you are unable to carry yourself (including up/down fixed stairways)
- is a hazardous or inflammable substance
- is likely to cause injury or offence to other customers or to our staff
- is likely to cause damage to buses, Underground trains or stations.
So if it's under 2 metres in length and you can carry it yourself, it's fine. If it's over 2 metres and/or you can't carry it yourself, you cannot bring it onto the system.
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,246
|
Post by rincew1nd on Apr 14, 2010 18:41:36 GMT
I guess the line about inflammable substances rules out my motor "cycle" then!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 19:07:31 GMT
And if there are lamps running on batteries you would have to remove them and leave the batteries at home. Correct?
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,317
|
Post by Colin on Apr 14, 2010 19:24:04 GMT
Why?
If you adopt that logic (banning batteries), well we'd be unable to employ many railway rules for starters (ie, hand signalling using battery powered hand lamps). Then there's things like mobile phones, MP3 players (if only), etc, etc.
The only thing that'd be enforced (or at least should be) is that the lights should be off - the last thing we need is the potential for confusion with a hand signal.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2010 20:05:02 GMT
Batteries are a fire hazard aren't they?
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,317
|
Post by Colin on Apr 14, 2010 20:58:26 GMT
I'm no technical expert on batteries, but I can say with 100% confidence that in the context of the conditions of carriage, batteries used to power lamps on a bicycle are not considered a hazardous or inflammable substance.
Oh and I've thought of another: don't forget every single train carriage carries batteries giving an output of 50 volts DC - quite a lot more in both size & power than the 1.5 - 9 volts DC you'll find in a humble lamp.
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Apr 14, 2010 21:09:54 GMT
Moreover, in certain circumstances the train batteries would be subjected to a 'gassing' charge.
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,246
|
Post by rincew1nd on Apr 14, 2010 21:32:46 GMT
So, apart from the lifting clause, this{¬}, is acceptable? {¬} Ignore the actual train ,it was the only pic I could find of my cycle on a train. Please?
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,317
|
Post by Colin on Apr 14, 2010 21:39:25 GMT
Would it be light enough to lift without the petrol tank attached? that could be a way round the rules ;D ;D
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,246
|
Post by rincew1nd on Apr 14, 2010 22:49:41 GMT
If I drained the oil, maybe!
|
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Apr 15, 2010 1:03:26 GMT
<ahem> I recognize that photo - spot the Tyers attempt at a LT tunnel signal [1] (A6 ..er.. a). I'm very slightly embarrassed to admit, but everything in that picture that is capable of being painted (and has been painted previously) I've painted at somepoint over the past 20 *koff* *koff* years.... With the exception of that which belongs to the SJ [2] [1] (there's a bigger story behind these few words) - but basically some plank failed to factor in the aspect baffles. [2] Suzuki Jihad - random build quality and spontaneous rust.
|
|
Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
|
Post by Phil on Apr 15, 2010 7:25:28 GMT
Back on topic Batteries are a fire hazard aren't they? Not in this country. All batteries in portable devices (including lead-acid propulsion batteries) are built sealed so even if they're tipped upside-down they don't leak, and the sealing means no gas escapes. Would it be light enough to lift without the petrol tank attached? that could be a way round the rules ;D ;D Good point this - normally you'd have to drain all the fuel from the whole system as well as removing the tank. But what about those monkey bikes which claim to have a totally sealed fuel system? They seem to be allowed even in taxis as well as some (but only some) of NR.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,317
|
Post by Colin on Apr 15, 2010 11:23:58 GMT
If it contains fuel, it's not allowed - it is as simple as that.
|
|
|
Post by andypurk on Apr 15, 2010 12:43:09 GMT
Back on topic Batteries are a fire hazard aren't they? Not in this country. All batteries in portable devices (including lead-acid propulsion batteries) are built sealed so even if they're tipped upside-down they don't leak, and the sealing means no gas escapes. Just being sealed doesn't stop the batteries being a fire hazard though. Several types of rechargeable batteries, including the Li-ion type found in laptops (and some mobiles), can get hot enough to burn fabric etc., if there is a short circuit. I found this out when I changed a pair of NiMH rechargeable batteries in a camera and put the old set in my trouser pocket, along with my keys / small change. Said batteries got hot very quickly.
|
|
|
Post by ducatisti on Apr 15, 2010 13:43:24 GMT
"So, apart from the lifting clause, this{¬}, is acceptable? {¬} Ignore the actual train ,it was the only pic I could find of my cycle on a train. Please?" Hooligans at the Tallylyn! how very dare you... Is there any reason it's on it's side btw? going back to topic, are bicycles more than 2m long?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2010 16:45:38 GMT
I am 1,88 meters tall and I'm longer than my quite average 22" cross country bike. So I guess no under normal circumstances.
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,246
|
Post by rincew1nd on Apr 15, 2010 19:19:01 GMT
All batteries in portable devices (including lead-acid propulsion batteries) are built sealed so even if they're tipped upside-down they don't leak, and the sealing means no gas escapes. Not quite. The battery currently in the above cycle was purchased and fitted less than a year ago and has a "breather". A pipe is fitted to the top of the battery and runs down to somewhere underneath behind the engine. For this reason it was taken out prior to transport. Is there any reason it's on it's side btw? Yes, as the train was a goods train, it was not required to carry a length of rope, therefore we had nothing to use to lash the bike to the crane. I wasn't prepared to simply have it standing on the wagon, especially with a driver known for not hanging around. Lying it down was the only way to stop it falling down. [glow=majenta,8,800]Back to the original question(s):[/glow] Is the reason that "cycles" are banned between Colindale and Hendon Central the tunnel? How long does a tunnel have to be for cycles to be prohibited?
|
|
slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
|
Post by slugabed on Apr 15, 2010 20:15:08 GMT
Lead-acid batteries,as fitted to "most" motorcycles have the double problem of gassing hydrogen whilst in use (presumably like the batteries fitted to trailers alluded to in the "Non-smoking cars" thread) but also contain pretty strong Sulphuric acid which,if the batteries are tipped over,runs out through the breather pipe fittedc to vent the hydrogen. This is why the Post Office,as well as public transport concerns,are unenthusiastic about carrying them,or vehicles which may have them fitted. That's aside from considerations regarding petrol,space,steps etc.....
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,246
|
Post by rincew1nd on Apr 15, 2010 20:57:21 GMT
Lead-acid batteries,as fitted to "most" motorcycles have the double problem of gassing hydrogen whilst in use <snip> ...runs out through the breather pipe fitted to vent the hydrogen. I'm now a little worried that the breather for my battery vents immediately above the exhaust pipe . I think I'll take the car to work tomorrow.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2010 21:13:31 GMT
Is the reason that "cycles" ;) are banned between Colindale and Hendon Central the tunnel? How long does a tunnel have to be for cycles to be prohibited? Any length, I'd imagine - the issue is, after all, the need to have the tube-sized cars clear for evacuation through the internal doors towards the front or rear of the train, as appropriate. You'll note that the Hounslow West to Heathrow area is banned for bikes - despite the fact that the section between Hounslow West and Hatton Cross is actually in double track cut and cover tunnel, not 'normal' tube tunnel. Also, bikes can't be taken on the east end of the Picc except between Cockfosters and Oakwood, although going west from Oakwood to Southgate or east to Oakwood from Southgate, the amount of tunnel you would travel through is only just over a train's length.
|
|
slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
Posts: 1,480
|
Post by slugabed on Apr 15, 2010 22:05:21 GMT
Lead-acid batteries,as fitted to "most" motorcycles have the double problem of gassing hydrogen whilst in use <snip> ...runs out through the breather pipe fitted to vent the hydrogen. I'm now a little worried that the breather for my battery vents immediately above the exhaust pipe . I think I'll take the car to work tomorrow. Wouldn't worry,mate.....very few of my motorbikes have exploded whilst in use! Seriously,though,the hydrogen would need to find a naked flame or spark to ignite....if you're worried,re-route the vent-pipe somewhere less contentious!
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,246
|
Post by rincew1nd on Apr 15, 2010 23:01:49 GMT
Wouldn't worry,mate.....very few of my motorbikes have exploded whilst in use! Very few? I'd rather you'd said none! I take the point that cycles can't be carried on tube trains in tunnel section because of the evacuation risk, I'm now intrigued as to when a big bridge becomes a tunnel. Though I suspect we have already discussed this somewhere? Cue: threadseekers.
|
|