Euston loop - chance to ride!

23 Points are being worked on at Camden, thus necessitating the Golders Green -Euston [City] section to be shut. Barnets will run via Charing X, Camden Town Station will be shut all weekend.

23 Points are the points that S/B Bank trains use from the Edgware Branch to join the Bank branch trains from Barnet/Mill Hill.

Trains will arrive in King's Cross northbound platform and run direct to Euston (City) southbound platform via the Euston loop, then reverse and proceed southbound as normal.

www.trainweb.org/tubeprune/Euston%20&%20KX-leu5-4.gif

Yes you can catch a High Barnet service from the northbound Charing Cross platform at Euston and then non stop Camden Town.

The T/Op, because he accepted the wrong route offered. If he had noticed and got on the blower to the L/C or signaller, it would have been the signaller's fault.

No Chris, it's not "shared".

TOK is right - if the driver accepts it, it's the driver's fault and it's recorded and dealt with as such.

If the driver raises it and does not move, it will go down to the signaller and will be recorded and dealt with as such.

If you believe that......

Happybunny, try visiting a control room and learning how things work - if the program machine sets an incorrect route, the signaller is held responsible.

As Colin has already corrected Chris, is there a point in admonishing him (in public) still further, especially someone who contributes so much to the forum anyway?



Anyways, I went there today and took a ride: it's probably more interesting to a T/O who can see ahead of him/her - there isn't too much to see as a passenger, although I did try to get a glimpse at the Piccadilly connection (and failed).

Some poor photos and a couple videos are here but be warned, they're not particularly clear.

Is the 'blocked off' line, straight ahead as the train turns to enter the s/b city platform at Euston remains of before the Victoria Line was built, or has that been disused since pre-war? I presume the points are scotched and clipped? <Don't jump on me if I'm wrong>

First of all, the "blame" gets attributed only after a DMT has investigated a wrong signal incident, and considered all relevant factors.

If the wrong signal was offered as a result of a fault with either the programme machine or train description (PTI on the Northern Line), then it will not held against the Signal Operator. Normal procedure is that the DMT who takes the item will speak to the Train Operator and the Service Manager will speak to the Signal Operator on the DMT's behalf.

Depending on the amount of delay caused and how far the DMT wishes to investigate the matter, any evidence will be looked at (e.g. Trackernet replay, signal computer downloads), and the Signal Operations Manager may arrange to have the programme machine checked for any defects.

In all cases the item would be listed on both the Train Operator and Signal Operator's records as a staff error, unless the DMT and/or Service Manager decide otherwise - for example in the aforementioned case of a programme machine defect.

Obviously if the Train Operator were to stop and report the wrong signal before accepting it then it would not in any way be down to him.

As far as Euston Loop goes, you wouldn't see any sign of the connection to the Piccadilly Line, as that is off the n/b main just north of KX platform. As you enter Euston from the south, on the left you can see an empty tunnel, which is the former reversing siding, and a few yards of the original northbound. This leads to a sand drag, and serves as trap points as trains can be held in the Euston Loop to await a suitable gap in the southbound or for reversing purposes (N/B to Euston Loop to Piccadilly Line).

No it's reported to the InfraCo and they investigate. Though it quite often comes back as No Fault Found. We tend to have the equipment just call for a signal without offering a warning for an Out of Turn at Acton Town from time to time which is a pain in the rear. There is then a tendency not to report the fault "as it is known and never gets fixed".

Also the signal operator will be required to write a memo regarding the Wrong Signal Lowered and part of the delay will be recorded as a Staff Error on their part.

With so many diagram PM warning lamps missing and bells turned off you don't always get to know something is about to happen until it does. Then there's the TD button lamps that don't work or you press one destination (Heathrow Loop) and another (Northfields Depot) flashes up!

Then there's just a case of slippery finger! ;D ;D

Oh well, another piece of randon track bashed. Transtition from usual running line to loop at KX was very smooth. Didn't see anything of note - wish I'd seen North End's post before going round...

What else is there to do (this not an Alexander weeping as he had no more kingdoms to conquer, but an idle question)?
I've now done Kennington Loop and St Mary's curve.
The KX loop must be one (albeit, pretty hard to get onto I should imagine).

And those old fasioned tube tours in a more enlightened period!

Exactly.
Yes - engineering works make no difference at all.

I thought rather than actively thread-drift i would start a new thread:

districtdave.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Signals&thread=12680

Without wishing to incur further wrath from Phil, the train operator is expected to know where the train is going that trip and thus which route they should be given at each diverging junction. If they are informed en route (I expect this could either be by radio or by suitably authorised person at a station) that their destination has changed, then they are expected to know which route they will now be taking and to disregard the previous destination^[1].
If at any point they are offered a route that differs from this they are supposed to contact the signaller (traditionally by the signal post telephone, but now I'd guess using the radio is possible too) to clarify before accepting it.^[2] The signaller will then either tell the t/op either that the signal is right and they are being diverted (I've heard of this happening at Turnham Green on the District Line), or that the signal is wrong and that they (the signaller) will then (try to) sort it.^[3][4]

In most cases it will be normal for the t/op to have been informed of a change of route before they get to the point the routes diverge, but there are occasions when this doesn't happen.

[1] with the exception of informing passengers on the train
[2] I presume that if the change is just to send the train to a different platform at the terminus then this is fine, especially if the t/op can see that the original platform is full. I also presume that at places like Loughton where trains are normally routed into the through platform, if they are unexpectedly sent into the middle road where they can either continue through or reverse that the t/op would accept the route to the centre platform and then clarify with the signaller where they are going next.
[3]This could either be the fault of the signaller, programme machine (etc), or a failure of on the ground equipment (e.g. the signaller set the route for the diverging route, but the points didn't move as commanded)
[4]I would think it's also possible, but unlikely for the t/op to think they've been given the wrong route when they haven't - e.g. if a t/op reads the signal wrong, or gets muddled as to where they're going. If this happens I would be surprised if they didn't get a ribbing from their collegues at the very least!